Extract VIP mission

[Jacke]

This is the mission where the VIP and all of the squad without the Phantom perk start revealed. Those with the Phantom perk are concealed. 12 turns to get to a fixed evac.

EDIT: Discussion back and forth on this mission. Likely better with just one or maybe two Shinobi. Risky but can top up squad to 3 with troops for the experience; will take a Squaddie to LCpl. Everyone take a flashbang and a smoke grenade. Never send a fighting team with only 12 turns and no concealment.

I just send 3 soldiers on one of these, a Shinobi, a Sharpshooter, and a Rookie. Infiltrated to 190%. Enemy Extremely Light.

And damn near died.

2 pods of 4 ADVENT each, one lead by an Officer, the other by a Sectoid. The evac was on top of a 3-story building with lots of glass in its walls. And both pods were wandering around the base of the building.

Moved towards the evac and the Shinobi saw the Officer pod off to the right. Bunch of civilians and a scanning tower in front, but that only mattered to the Shinobi who was still concealed.

I have a number of LOS mods and they were very helpful.

The obvious approach was more left to stay away from the Officer pod, but there was risk of being seen by the Sector pod if it approached the back of the building.

Decided on the 4th turn to head toward the centre front of the building where there was a pipe going all the way to the roof.

Couldn't see the Sector pod, it was back and more right somewhere behind the building. The Officer pod wandered into range and spotted my troops. They spread out and the Officer went on Overwatch.

I decided to run for it, as everyone was now within a yellow move of the evac. Shinobi dodged the reaction shot and everyone climbed up the pipe to the evac. Flawless...not really.

I got impatient. Should have waited. Should have located the Sectoid pod.

However, the pods' wander appeare random. I was worried the two would come around the building in different directions and effectively block escape long enough.

Didn't have the time to get proper separation of my Sharpshooter to fire on any targets. Not enough time and had to focus on moving and staying out of sight.

I don't think a larger squad would have helped. All but the Shinobi would have been revealed. Only had the Sharpshooter as a squadsight weapon and it would only activate a pod without really hurting it that much.

If I get another, I think I might be tempted to just send Shinobis on it. With lots of smoke and flashbangs.

[Daergar]

I send a single shinobi and just run the edge of the map and wait for the opportunity to make a two-move dash with the vip. Having to worry about more non-concealed friendlies is horrid, even if the xp min-maxer in me sobs a bit.

Two or three shinobis would obviously be ideal, as you say, lotsa flash and smokes, retreat one step, conceal, move on the next full turn.

[Jacke]

I send a single shinobi and just run the edge of the map and wait for the opportunity to make a two-move dash with the vip. Having to worry about more non-concealed friendlies is horrid, even if the xp min-maxer in me sobs a bit.

Two or three shinobis would obviously be ideal, as you say, lotsa flash and smokes, retreat one step, conceal, move on the next full turn.

Maybe later. This was the 2nd mission of my campaign (restarted yet again). No where near getting Conceal. For a bit of trouble (almost too muc) I got brand new LCpl.

[Kizaray]

These are some of the hardest timed missions. I often skip them unless i really need the scientist or engineer. Its just too risky in my opinion.

[LordYanaek]

Full Phantom (shinobi and possibly sharpshooter or anyone with Phantom from AWC) is definitely the way to go if you want to go stealthy on this mission (at worst you loose the VIP and came for nothing but you don't loose your guys). 2 or 3 phantom soldiers allows you to much better keep several pods in vision and choose the evacuation path for your VIP in addition to allowing the use of smoke grenades to cover you approach.
It's not possible very early but very early another option might work : a small 5 men squad can have decent infiltration times and be able to handle the 2 pods on extremely light and clear the path to the evac.

[Tuhalu]

Do Ghost Grenades work on the VIP? Just imagining a situation where a Grenadier gets Phantom from the AWC....

[LordYanaek]

Do Ghost Grenades work on the VIP? Just imagining a situation where a Grenadier gets Phantom from the AWC....

I doubt it. First you can't ghost while concealed so you'd need Conceal instead. Then, i was once able to get the squad concealment hack reward from a lamp and everyone went concealed except the VIP so i guess they are coded to not benefit from concealment.

[Jacke]

Watching xwynns do this in his Legendary video series didn't prepare me for how hard these missions are.

These are some of the hardest timed missions. I often skip them unless i really need the scientist or engineer. Its just too risky in my opinion.

Early in a campaign, especially at Legendary, even when desperately wanting engineers and scientists, I'd seriously consider skipping Extract VIP. Too much risk for too little return for an understrength team that needs to focus on the best use of its limited forces.

In the future, I'll pay more attention to these missions in videos. Maybe there are ways to do them that reduce the risk.

Maybe could be done with 2 Shinobis to scout wide ahead while those unconcealed wait. Then you might be able to pick the best side to go down. Maybe bring along another troop just for the experience. Maybe if enough time to infiltrate with 5 to 100% or better, or boosted with Intel, could bring a 5 troop killing squad. But very risky as they will have to engage the first pod unconcealed. And there's not a lot of time to both fight and evac.

Even extending the time limit from 12 turns won't help that much. If ADVENT gets any increase in their vision range for spotting unconcealed troops, I'd say these would be impossible to stealth or fight.

Just for the sake of research, I decided to reload the last Geoscape save game I had before the Extract VIP mission to try it out again.

Ended up on a different map. Started on a small building. Evac was on a 3-story building across the map. I reloaded a lot to see what the possibilities were here.

2 pods, one near the far corner on the side I ran my squad down, the other in the middle with another small building building between them and the evac building. Sometimes, despite scouting with the Shinobi, my unconcealed squad was spotted. Of course, with all the glass and the long vision of the ADVENT troops, these building serarely block LOS enough to allow unconcealed troops to go past without activating the pod.

I considered backing up my 2 unconcealed troops and the VIP, but to stay out of sight they would have had to go right back to where they had started. And if they came back down the other side, if the centre pod had shifted even a little bit that way, they couldn't get past without being seen. And the large far pod might shift to that side too.

Tried to slip between the two pods but even after reloading to find the best possibility, was spotted by both pods. So much overwatch. Tried running my Shinobi up to the top of the evac building and dropping smoke, but that only helped a little. Move my troops first and they got wounded or killed. If I move the VIP first as a bullet sponge, he either was killed or red fog cut his mobility such that he couldn't get out on his next move and would surely be killed.

Frustration indeed.

[trihero]

Early in a campaign, especially at Legendary, even when desperately wanting engineers and scientists, I'd seriously consider skipping Extract VIP. Too much risk for too little return for an understrength team that needs to focus on the best use of its limited forces.

Wot? These are probably the easiest missions in the game, and on top of this, the risk is minimal.

Send one shinobi try to get 200% infiltration, try to find the longest way around to avoid the mobs. Even if your VIP gets spotted, it's pretty hard to lose the shinobi.

[Jacke]

Wot? These are probably the easiest missions in the game, and on top of this, the risk is minimal.

Send one shinobi try to get 200% infiltration, try to find the longest way around to avoid the mobs. Even if your VIP gets spotted, it's pretty hard to lose the shinobi.

I did two maps at 190% and 189%. Due to enemy pod placement, there was almost no chance of the VIP getting out and I was using LOS mods to guide him as much as possible out of sight. Got out on the first map by shear luck. And the Shinobi will almost certainly escape.

But early campaign, even thought the Shinobi will almost certainly rank up, is that the best use of the Shinobi? Or should I just wait for another non-Extract VIP mission? And what are the consequences of either passing up the mission in the Geoscape or failing it if run?

[trihero]

I didn't say they were guaranteed wins, but I really don't understand the statement that they are high risk. You don't risk losing the shinobi unless you make a massive blunder, and still that's just one guy. High risk is if you send 5 guys on a rescue vip mission, ur gonna lose a lot of men if you mess up.

You can never be sure what missions will pop up while the shinobi is infiltrating, but you can always abort if a "better" mission shows up. There is no reason not to start infiltrating something you see now, because you can abort.

There is no special penalty for failing or passing it up. I'd heard a rumor that at one point if you failed a lib2 or lib3 mission you have to go back to lib 1, but I haven't seen that to be true myself. In vanilla you were double punished for failing; not only did you not get the reward, but you lost contact with the region and lost permanent income points in that region, and the avatar project sped up. The only missions that outright penalize you for failing in LW2 are retaliation/invasion missions.

I think it's a bad idea to "wait" in general, unless you are specifically worried about a retaliation/invasion or are trying to line up your A team for a big mission. The longer you wait the worse things get for you, especially on legend.

[Jacke]

I didn't say they were guaranteed wins, but I really don't understand the statement that they are high risk. You don't risk losing the shinobi unless you make a massive blunder, and still that's just one guy. High risk is if you send 5 guys on a rescue vip mission, ur gonna lose a lot of men if you mess up.

...you can always abort if a "better" mission shows up. There is no reason not to start infiltrating something you see now, because you can abort.

Been mulling this one over again and again. You're right in the risk being limited to success.

Send one or maybe two Shinobi. If wanting to gamble, send 2 more troops just for the experience, as they can usually get out, but they might be better on another mission. Everyone carrying a flashbang and a smoke grenade, especially the Shinobi.

Very bad idea to send a fighting team with no initial concealment.

There is no special penalty for failing or passing it up. I'd heard a rumor that at one point if you failed a lib2 or lib3 mission you have to go back to lib 1, but I haven't seen that to be true myself. In vanilla you were double punished for failing; not only did you not get the reward, but you lost contact with the region and lost permanent income points in that region, and the avatar project sped up. The only missions that outright penalize you for failing in LW2 are retaliation/invasion missions.

I think it's a bad idea to "wait" in general, unless you are specifically worried about a retaliation/invasion or are trying to line up your A team for a big mission. The longer you wait the worse things get for you, especially on legend.

xwynns mentioned failing Lib 2 or Lib 3 requiring starting back at Lib 1 in one of his videos, but later said it was something that was dropped during LW2 development.

Important to know that most missions can be skipped and even aborted and failed with only the consequences being squad injury.

What about Rendezvous missions? If you don't think the advisor and the rebels can't handle it, is it better to skip?

And just to be thorough, I did the Extract VIP mission one more time. Another map with the squad on top of one building and the evac on another across the map.

This time I sent the Shinobi well forward. Kept the squad in the start location for the first turn, then moved them more central but not very forward. Eventually spotted both pods, one forward of the evac well to the right, then other back well to the left.

Watched the pods for a few turns as I carefully moved up the squad with the VIP. Really used the mods LOS Preview Ability and Pod Activation Preview to see where things were safe. Figured out where I could move them that if the pods move about 7 tiles, they'd still be unseen.

I had a bit of the luck as the far pod moved behind the building centre right and back, while the near pod moved centre right and forward. My squad slipped in on the left edge.

Got within 2 turns running for the VIP to get to the evac, with cover for him after his first dash. Put the Shinobi on top of evac building to check both pods. Dashed the VIP up to a lower roof, which activated the near pod. Then ran up the other 2 soldiers around him. Shinobi came down and dropped smoke on all of them.

A drone and a ADVENT trooper came up on the lower roof right next to the squad, but no one fired; must have dashed. Couldn't see anyone else. Next turn everyone up to the evac, no overwatch shots. Two had only done blue moves but no enemy in sight. So evacced all. 8 of 12 turns.

Better than the previous success. Still some luck to get out without even receiving a shot.

[trihero]

What about Rendezvous missions? If you don't think the advisor and the rebels can't handle it, is it better to skip?

Nothing seems to happen if you skip a rendezvous mission. I'd heard a rumor that the faceless rebels simply disappear from your haven (so the only penalty for not doing the mission is the opportunity cost of retrieving faceless corpses + some fairly easy loot), but I did not notice any population decrease when I skipped one for science.

I think it is worth skipping rendezvous if you can't handle it; losing rebels is a costly setback in terms of time. On legend and as you get later into the game, the last pod contains 4 faceless (who can buffed with all the DE upgrades) and 2 advents, it's not entirely trivial with a low pop haven and a low adviser.