Ranger builds

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Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Jacke »

Been thinking things over some more. I'm wondering about two power choices in my Ranger build, the ones at LCpl and GSgt.

Ranger
Walk Fire / Covering Fire - Locked On - Cool Under Pressure - Grazing Fire - Ever Vigilant - Rapid Fire / Rapid Reaction - Rupture

I think Covering Fire may not be worth it, as there's no reduction of the target's cover for the reaction shot. Walk Fire might be better against high defence targets.

Rapid Reaction can be very powerful, but there's enemy with either Shadowstep or Lightning Reflexes, making them immune or nearly so to Overwatch. I still like Cool Under Pressure and Ever Vigilant, as Overwatch is still a vital power and improving its aim, adding crit, and making it free when just moving is great. But I think doubling up a Ranger's already doubled shots with Rapid Fire might be better than Rapid Reaction.
aimlessgun
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:22 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by aimlessgun »

Undershaft wrote: Until then, I will continue using rangers and see if their value drops in the later game (I'm still at the mag-gun level at the moment).
It shouldn't drop, you'll be laying down Combat Engineer grenades and Saturation Fires and shredder cannons and something has to mop up the half HP enemies standing around afterwards. Ranger does this efficiently without using cooldowns and without risking extra pulls.
Jacke wrote: I think Covering Fire may not be worth it, as there's no reduction of the target's cover for the reaction shot. Walk Fire might be better against high defence targets.

Rapid Reaction can be very powerful, but there's enemy with either Shadowstep or Lightning Reflexes, making them immune or nearly so to Overwatch. I still like Cool Under Pressure and Ever Vigilant, as Overwatch is still a vital power and improving its aim, adding crit, and making it free when just moving is great. But I think doubling up a Ranger's already doubled shots with Rapid Fire might be better than Rapid Reaction.
I didn't like Covering Fire when I tried it. Very situational. Firstly you need to end your turn with active live aliens that are not burning or stunned, or not double debuffed (ex. if they're double CCed like Suppress/Flash they might just hunker). Ideally this shouldn't happen very often :) And then even if you do get into a situation where Covering Fire activates, it's such a low percentage shot after cover and reaction fire penalties and even if you hit it has a good chance of grazing and not even killing the guy so they get their shot off anyways...

For Rapid Reaction, there's always gonna be something to shoot at when a pod activates. You don't find pods of all Shadowstep Vipers (well at least I never have). Rapid Fire is really powerful though.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by trihero »

Shrug, I like covering fire still. I can see and understand why people use walk fire, but for me I often flank using double move into Ever Vigilant, and Covering Fire picks up in this circumstance where if they try to fire at someone (or move), they will get rekt. They actually don't always move while flanked; for instance if they feel like they can't escape your flank they will just sit there and attack)

Yes covering fire gets hurt a lot by cover, but grazing fire kind of makes up for it.

And for me, grazing fire is essentially a passive walk fire already. If you're taking 50% shots, grazing fire is essentially a passive +25% assuming you turned off the graze band like me. Of course enemy dodge reduces it, and I'm not saying walk fire isn't amazing, but I get by without it due to grazing fire, and I find use for covering fire. If you're a min/maxer sure go for walk fire, but I definitely find covering fire useful in practice.
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Valaska
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:45 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Valaska »

leudaimon wrote:
Valaska wrote:
Goumindong wrote:
A ranger cannot kill 2 aliens per turn unless they stand out in the open for you to kill. In which case many classes can kill two aliens per turn.

If they're not standing out in the open for you to kill then you're going to need to move (because you do not have BVR targeting and so cannot set up flanks that aliens will not respect). And if you have to move you get zero value from your ranger as compared to any other class.

If you're just shooting at aliens in low cover and hoping that you will hit then well... you're going to kill, on average, .75 aliens per turn (75 to-hit - 25 low cover = 50% to hit. Aliens have 4 to 8 HP and you do 3-5 damage). Which is not that impressive. And frankly you don't want to be getting into volume of fire fights with aliens early in the game anyway.

Once you start adding ranks... every other class will be adding valuable options while rangers get... well not that valuable options.

Yea. I would absolutely rather bring another rocket and two flame charges than bring a ranger. I would absolutely love to bring 3 more large grenades (or flashbangs or smoke). The only class that kills worse than the ranger is the specialist. And at least they can defend their allies.
Yes they can, high aim and elite scopes. My rangers often kill 2 people.
Also great to kill high HP MECs and other stuff that don't use cover. For those, a non-overwatch, high-crit, rapid fire build works wonders.
Yeah, locked on and rapid fire can decimate MECs and shredded sectopods. One of my rangers has shred on her rifle, she can rip apart 6 armor in one turn with rapid.
aedn
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:12 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by aedn »

My only ranger build is: walk fire - locked on - aggression - executioner - BEO - rapid fire - rupture.

High aim rangers are turned into officers for the passive bonuses, and go on combat missions

Low aim rangers are exiled to havens and take the center perk tree until they die or desert from service, basically remf's.
Goumindong
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Goumindong »

Jacke wrote:Been thinking things over some more. I'm wondering about two power choices in my Ranger build, the ones at LCpl and GSgt.

Ranger
Walk Fire / Covering Fire - Locked On - Cool Under Pressure - Grazing Fire - Ever Vigilant - Rapid Fire / Rapid Reaction - Rupture

I think Covering Fire may not be worth it, as there's no reduction of the target's cover for the reaction shot. Walk Fire might be better against high defence targets.

Rapid Reaction can be very powerful, but there's enemy with either Shadowstep or Lightning Reflexes, making them immune or nearly so to Overwatch. I still like Cool Under Pressure and Ever Vigilant, as Overwatch is still a vital power and improving its aim, adding crit, and making it free when just moving is great. But I think doubling up a Ranger's already doubled shots with Rapid Fire might be better than Rapid Reaction.
If you're going to use ever vigilant then covering fire is amazing. If not then you may want to avoid it.
cerebrawl
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by cerebrawl »

Walk fire - locked on - cool under pressure - grazing fire - ever vigilant - rapid reaction - rupture

That's my standard set, though I could see myself building a couple of crit rangers:

Close and personal - locked on - aggression - executioner - bring em on - rapid fire - combat conditioning

But the more I think about it, the more I want to go fiddle with their tree a bit. There's some choices that I don't particularly like any of the options for some builds(particularly at corpral and staff sergeant ranks).
Balor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Balor »

What PCS do you like to run on your rangers?
Hazelnut
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:00 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Hazelnut »

Valaska wrote:Yeah, locked on and rapid fire can decimate MECs and shredded sectopods. One of my rangers has shred on her rifle, she can rip apart 6 armor in one turn with rapid.
You mean shredder AWC perk? yeah that's a nice one for a ranger. Otherwise the max you can shred is 3 per turn with shredder rounds right?
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by trihero »

Shredder rounds only shreds 1 armor per hit regardless of what weapon you use it with.
Balor
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Balor »

Right, I see what you are saying about shred but I do have a stacking question if anyone has tested it. If you have both Shred AWC and Shred rounds would it kill two armor in a hit or just one?

Ranger was my favorite class in the older LW standalone mods and I'm still getting my head around this version. Keep up the good work guys and good insights.
Hazelnut
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:00 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Hazelnut »

trihero wrote:Shredder rounds only shreds 1 armor per hit regardless of what weapon you use it with.
yes, and with a ranger 3 hits = 3 shred with rounds. (LeU+RF)
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by trihero »

Shredder perk does stack with shredder rounds, I did it with a gunner.
Balor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Balor »

trihero wrote:Shredder perk does stack with shredder rounds, I did it with a gunner.
Very cool, thanks Trihero. I can see how good that would be on a gunner but for a ranger would it be better to mix it with venom or another ammo type vs doubling up?
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by trihero »

I don't like shredder rounds because they feel too weak to me (if someone has shredder perk, that is enough armor shredding). I prefer my rangers to be overwatch kings and I actually use....talon rounds on them, since they often times shoot flanked targets the critical strike is very very high (flanking is +40, cool under pressure is +10, laser sight +15, talon +10 = 75% crit!). The assault rifle hits like a wet noodle in the late game but critical hits take them back up into monstrous dps.
cerebrawl
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by cerebrawl »

Balor wrote:What PCS do you like to run on your rangers?
I mix a bit. Generally perception, combat awareness or speed, but I might swap over my overwatch rangers to using fire control PCS later on, so they won't waste shots on lightning reflex chryssalids and the like.
cerebrawl
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:41 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by cerebrawl »

cerebrawl wrote:But the more I think about it, the more I want to go fiddle with their tree a bit. There's some choices that I don't particularly like any of the options for some builds(particularly at corpral and staff sergeant ranks).
I did some judicial restructuring of the Ranger perk tree, ended up with the following, which I felt was more coherent:

Code: Select all

;************************************************************************************************************
;***                                    Ranger Class Data                                        ***
;************************************************************************************************************

[LWS_Ranger X2SoldierClassTemplate]
+bMultiplayerOnly=0
+ClassPoints=4
+IconImage="img:///UILibrary_Common.class_ranger"
+NumInForcedDeck=1
+NumInDeck=4
+KillAssistsPerKill=5
+SquaddieLoadout="SquaddieLWS_Ranger"
+AllowedWeapons=(SlotType=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon, WeaponType="rifle")
+AllowedWeapons=(SlotType=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon, WeaponType="shotgun")
+AllowedWeapons=(SlotType=eInvSlot_SecondaryWeapon, WeaponType="sawedoffshotgun")
+AllowedWeapons=(SlotType=eInvSlot_HeavyWeapon, WeaponType="heavy")
+AllowedArmors="soldier"
; squaddie
+SoldierRanks=(	aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="PointBlank",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_SecondaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="BothBarrels",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_SecondaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="LightEmUp",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							 ), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=3), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=4), (StatType=eStat_CombatSims,StatAmount=1)) \\
			)
; LCPL
+SoldierRanks=(  aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="WalkFire",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="CloseAndPersonal",	ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_Unknown), \\
								(AbilityName="Suppression_LW",		ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							 ), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=2), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=4), (StatType=eStat_HP,StatAmount=1)) \\
			)
; CPL
+SoldierRanks=(  aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="LockedOn",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="CenterMass",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="CoveringFire",		ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
								), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=3), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0))\\
			)
; SGT
+SoldierRanks=(  aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="Executioner",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="PumpAction",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_SecondaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="CoolUnderPressure",	ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							 ), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=2), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0))\\
			)
; SSGT
+SoldierRanks=(  aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="Aggression",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
								(AbilityName="Fortify"				), \\
								(AbilityName="GrazingFire",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							 ), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=3), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0), (StatType=eStat_HP,StatAmount=1)) \\
			)
; TSGT
+SoldierRanks=(  aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="BringEmOn",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_Unknown), \\
								(AbilityName="Formidable",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_Unknown), \\
								(AbilityName="EverVigilant",		ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=2), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0)) \\
			)
; GSGT
+SoldierRanks=( aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="RapidFire",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
 								(AbilityName="TacticalSense"		), \\
								(AbilityName="RapidReaction",		ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
							), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=3), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0), (StatType=eStat_Strength,StatAmount=1)) \\
			)
; MSGT
+SoldierRanks=( aAbilityTree=(	(AbilityName="BulletShred",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon), \\
                                (AbilityName="CombatFitness"		), \\
                                (AbilityName="KillZone",			ApplyToWeaponSlot=eInvSlot_PrimaryWeapon) \\
                            ), \\
				aStatProgression=((StatType=eStat_Offense,StatAmount=2), (StatType=eStat_Will,StatAmount=0), (StatType=eStat_HP,StatAmount=1), (StatType=eStat_Strength,StatAmount=1)) \\
			)
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Valaska
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:45 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Valaska »

Hazelnut wrote:
Valaska wrote:Yeah, locked on and rapid fire can decimate MECs and shredded sectopods. One of my rangers has shred on her rifle, she can rip apart 6 armor in one turn with rapid.
You mean shredder AWC perk? yeah that's a nice one for a ranger. Otherwise the max you can shred is 3 per turn with shredder rounds right?
It does two per shot with Shredder and your Primary? Rapid fire hits 3 times in a row unlike Chain Shot. You can actually shred off 6 I thought?
CasualGamer
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:51 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by CasualGamer »

I have a question about walking fire. It seems quite well liked, but when I tried it out I thought it sucked because it seemed to use both actions preventing a second shot with light em up. I re-spec-ed right out of it and never used it again.

Seemed like +30 to hit at the cost of doing half damage and losing a second full damage shot.

What did I miss?
Does it not use both actions (maybe I had blue moved and mistook walk fire as finishing the turn).

(This is of interest as I am restarting the campaign, the veteran level seemed too easy, so trying commander.)
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by trihero »

If you do a regular shot first, you can then walk fire.
CasualGamer
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:51 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by CasualGamer »

trihero wrote:If you do a regular shot first, you can then walk fire.
Ah, I see. It finishes the turn if done first. Thanks.
That makes it altogether more desirable.

Planning ahead, on the non-over watch build who later gets rapid fire, how do rapid fire and walk shot work together?
Normally I have used normal shot then rapid fire granting 3 shots to a light em up character. This is because I think rapid fire must be the second action to get 3 shots out. So am I correct to believe it is not possible to use both walk fire and rapid shot in the same turn.

Thanks very much for the advice.
Kizaray
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:16 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Kizaray »

trihero wrote:1a) I agree center mass is a newbie trap, later on especially on higher difficulties mobs go way past your ability to one shot them and critical hits become very powerful.

1b) bring'em on, it goes well with with aggression. Ranger typically has room to wear good armors anyways (unlike grenadiers, for instance).

2a) I don't like suppression on ranger, you have more important things to do like shoot twice or move twice with ever vigilant. It also doesn't work with rapid reaction.

2b) combat fitness is actually all right, considering you live and die on overwatch shots so any bit of aim helps with that. I don't like killzone, it's never been quite reliable for me. I like rupture a lot for the late game when you're facing down sectopods/gatekeepers you don't want to not have it on someone at least.
Doesnt center mass increase crit dmg. Isnt crit dmg based off of base dmg? I dont know the exact numbers but i assume it works like other games. If you do 10 base dmg and crit for 100% then your damage becomes 20 and if you increase that 10 by one the same crit now becomes 22. Maybe its too small to matter but with lite em up and all these overwatch rapid reaction that one damage adds up. What do you think?
nightwyrm
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Re: Ranger builds

Post by nightwyrm »

Kizaray wrote:
trihero wrote:1a) I agree center mass is a newbie trap, later on especially on higher difficulties mobs go way past your ability to one shot them and critical hits become very powerful.

1b) bring'em on, it goes well with with aggression. Ranger typically has room to wear good armors anyways (unlike grenadiers, for instance).

2a) I don't like suppression on ranger, you have more important things to do like shoot twice or move twice with ever vigilant. It also doesn't work with rapid reaction.

2b) combat fitness is actually all right, considering you live and die on overwatch shots so any bit of aim helps with that. I don't like killzone, it's never been quite reliable for me. I like rupture a lot for the late game when you're facing down sectopods/gatekeepers you don't want to not have it on someone at least.
Doesnt center mass increase crit dmg. Isnt crit dmg based off of base dmg? I dont know the exact numbers but i assume it works like other games. If you do 10 base dmg and crit for 100% then your damage becomes 20 and if you increase that 10 by one the same crit now becomes 22. Maybe its too small to matter but with lite em up and all these overwatch rapid reaction that one damage adds up. What do you think?
Crit damage is just a set amount of additional damage based on weapons.
Kizaray
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:16 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Kizaray »

Late game i let my squaddies go in the awc early to see what synergies i can get. For enstance if i get good overwatch perks in the awc ill build overwatch. I just wish the awc didnt take so long or had more spaces for soldiers to train...
Kizaray
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:16 am

Re: Ranger builds

Post by Kizaray »

nightwyrm wrote:
Kizaray wrote:
trihero wrote:1a) I agree center mass is a newbie trap, later on especially on higher difficulties mobs go way past your ability to one shot them and critical hits become very powerful.

1b) bring'em on, it goes well with with aggression. Ranger typically has room to wear good armors anyways (unlike grenadiers, for instance).

2a) I don't like suppression on ranger, you have more important things to do like shoot twice or move twice with ever vigilant. It also doesn't work with rapid reaction.

2b) combat fitness is actually all right, considering you live and die on overwatch shots so any bit of aim helps with that. I don't like killzone, it's never been quite reliable for me. I like rupture a lot for the late game when you're facing down sectopods/gatekeepers you don't want to not have it on someone at least.
Doesnt center mass increase crit dmg. Isnt crit dmg based off of base dmg? I dont know the exact numbers but i assume it works like other games. If you do 10 base dmg and crit for 100% then your damage becomes 20 and if you increase that 10 by one the same crit now becomes 22. Maybe its too small to matter but with lite em up and all these overwatch rapid reaction that one damage adds up. What do you think?
Crit damage is just a set amount of additional damage based on weapons.
Good to know! Thanks a ton
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