Snap Shot?

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whitelion1284
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Snap Shot?

Post by whitelion1284 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:14 pm

Since taking the snap shot perk for my sniper every shot is a "snap shot" regardless of whether it's the first action of the turn or not. This incurs massive aiming penalties. Is this normal?

Solomani
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Solomani » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:37 pm

Yes. It states this in the [?] icon when you select the skill.

I usually have at least one of these for my fast crew.

nightwyrm
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by nightwyrm » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:41 pm

One thing you should note is that once you take snapshot, the Sharp is no longer a Sniper you park at a nest. He plays a lot more like a mobile ranger/shinobi mix.

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whitelion1284
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by whitelion1284 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:49 pm

Any suggestions for how to use a snap shot sniper effectively? Cos I'm currently horrified.

Saph7
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Saph7 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:55 pm

Snapshot snipers require you to be in an incredibly narrow range band to be useful (1-5 tiles beyond visual range). Any longer than that and they can't hit the broad side of a barn, any shorter than that and you're better off with a Gunner or Ranger, or pretty much any other class for that matter.

Best suggestion I have for using them is 'don't take Snap Shot', but some people seem to like them.

Fanguru
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Fanguru » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Early game is a lot of guerilla and VIP missions. This is where snap shot shines.
Snap snipers just need high mobility. With a few pistol perks they can become quite strong. Fan fire -> lightning hands -> snap shot, that is a lot of damage in one turn.
They synergize well with a sapper grenadier and an officer giving them command.

Obviously, on supply raids and troop ambushes where timers do not matter, holo and DGG snipers with stocks outperform snap shot.

nightwyrm
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by nightwyrm » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:12 pm

My Snapshooter is not afraid to get into visual range. Is a Ranger better? Maybe, if he is able to shoot twice, but that limits his ability to move and flank. My Rangers are the centerpieces of my formation, taking the best cover and shooting a lot. My Snapshooter skirts the edge of the firefight, taking advantage of high ground with low cover, utilizing Low Profile and DDG for good shots.

As for Gunners, they're just stupid good right now with low level access to CM+HoB. But that's somewhat limited by cooldown.

trihero
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by trihero » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:14 pm

Hail of bullets is going up to 5 ammo, and I don't understand the obsession with center mass. 1 damage gets pretty irrelevant when the enemy starts fielding 20 hp units, but grazing fire hits for like 9 damage in the late game and is essentially equivalent to a passive Walk Fire if you're shooting through high cover / overwatching a lot.

Goumindong
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Goumindong » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:05 pm

whitelion1284 wrote:Any suggestions for how to use a snap shot sniper effectively? Cos I'm currently horrified.
Generally they work like any other unit. With the exception that, because they can still shoot from beyond visual range they can more easily take what might otherwise be considered weak cover positions. Additionally the AI on enemy cover positions only considers units that are visible (and positions that visible enemies might take... sometimes). A sharpshooter which can move and shoot can more easily exploit flanking positions because enemies that are flanked will not move to be unflanked.

Later in the game you will have an easy time stacking aggression bonuses and hunter's instinct, giving you some of the highest damage per shot in the game. Super lategame you will have access to serial, which, in refunding your actions, will allow you to move to an exposed location that is able to target multiple hostiles on a flank, shoot them all down with your high damage, and then get out again. You can do this with much higher confidence than a DFA sniper because the DFA sniper will often have to shoot through cover and will not gain access to the steady weapon ability while using serial (because if you steady after getting a kill you cannot shoot that turn).

All in all a snapshot sniper is much superior to any other general unit in terms of ability to generate and exploit flanking positions.

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whitelion1284
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by whitelion1284 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:41 am

Food for thought and good insight.

Thanks.

Jadiel
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Jadiel » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:11 pm

It's also worth noting that Precision Shot is more attractive to Snap Shot snipers as it gives you back the ability (on a 3 turn cd) to snipe from range on the occasions where you find yourself in a position where you wish you didn't have Snap Shot

JulianSkies
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by JulianSkies » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:21 pm

Jadiel wrote:It's also worth noting that Precision Shot is more attractive to Snap Shot snipers as it gives you back the ability (on a 3 turn cd) to snipe from range on the occasions where you find yourself in a position where you wish you didn't have Snap Shot
Wait, precision shot ignores the snap shot penalty?

wei270
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by wei270 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:26 pm

Wait, precision shot ignores the snap shot penalty?
nop it doesn't, unless you don't move. i think what he mean is that with snap shot you can more easy move your self in to a flanking position where then precision shot is more deadly.

nightwyrm
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by nightwyrm » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:31 pm

I don't like Precision Shot on my Snapshooter. The whole point of a Snapshooter is that she's mobile, otherwise, you should take DFA or Rapid Targeting instead. Precision Shot requires 2 actions which goes against the whole philosophy. I took it on my first Snap coz I didn't know any better and ended up never using it. Retrained out of it as soon as I could.

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Devon_v
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Devon_v » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:25 pm

trihero wrote:Hail of bullets is going up to 5 ammo, and I don't understand the obsession with center mass. 1 damage gets pretty irrelevant when the enemy starts fielding 20 hp units, but grazing fire hits for like 9 damage in the late game and is essentially equivalent to a passive Walk Fire if you're shooting through high cover / overwatching a lot.
Playstyle, mostly I think. Grazing Fire is 50% at best, reduced by enemy dodge, Center Mass is +2 damage with Chain Shot. Some people like to play the odds, some stack guarantees.

Jadiel
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Jadiel » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:44 pm

JulianSkies wrote:
Jadiel wrote:It's also worth noting that Precision Shot is more attractive to Snap Shot snipers as it gives you back the ability (on a 3 turn cd) to snipe from range on the occasions where you find yourself in a position where you wish you didn't have Snap Shot
Wait, precision shot ignores the snap shot penalty?
I think so. I think I tried it and that's how it worked, but now I wonder if maybe I'm just assuming it will work that way based of LW1. As another poster said, it still requires both actions (like a normal sniper shot), but it's not a snap shot, so you can shoot at normal Squad Sight ranges (with extra crit chance)

cerebrawl
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by cerebrawl » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:13 pm

Fanguru wrote:With a few pistol perks they can become quite strong. Fan fire -> lightning hands -> snap shot, that is a lot of damage in one turn.
They synergize well with a sapper grenadier and an officer giving them command.
This applies to everyone, except with any primary fire at the end of the chain.

In fact if you're using a sapper grenadier to break cover and issuing a command with an officer, the command should probably go to someone with an area attack, like a gunner with iron curtain, or assault with trench gunner; or heck, anyone with faceoff, or gunslinger, or killzone, etc.

Fanguru
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by Fanguru » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:34 pm

The snap shot build has increased damage and crit, making it a viable candidate for command. Obviously, there may be better candidates depending on the situation.

nightwyrm
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by nightwyrm » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:08 pm

Has anyone tried Snapshooting a Relay with squadsight? You can't miss right? Even with the huge penalties.

Why not use a DFA Sharpshooter, you ask. An officer could Command a Snapshooter to shoot twice in one round while you can't with a DFA Sharp. An early Double Tap for Relay killing could be useful.

trihero
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by trihero » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:09 pm

nightwyrm wrote:Has anyone tried Snapshooting a Relay with squadsight? You can't miss right? Even with the huge penalties.

Why not use a DFA Sharpshooter, you ask. An officer could Command a Snapshooter to shoot twice in one round while you can't with a DFA Sharp. An early Double Tap for Relay killing could be useful.
I was actually thinking about this recently, my only theoretical objection is usually my officer in these cases is the oscar mike shinobi who is way out of command range in order to squadsight spot the relay to begin with.

nightwyrm
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by nightwyrm » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:14 pm

trihero wrote:
nightwyrm wrote:Has anyone tried Snapshooting a Relay with squadsight? You can't miss right? Even with the huge penalties.

Why not use a DFA Sharpshooter, you ask. An officer could Command a Snapshooter to shoot twice in one round while you can't with a DFA Sharp. An early Double Tap for Relay killing could be useful.
I was actually thinking about this recently, my only theoretical objection is usually my officer in these cases is the oscar mike shinobi who is way out of command range in order to squadsight spot the relay to begin with.
Take 2 Shinobis. You're wasting XP for squads less than 3 anyways.

trihero
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by trihero » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:49 pm

My usual layout is 1 shinobi + 2 snipers for relay missions, so I am not wasting exp at all to begin with. I guess I don't need to command a snapshotter since I just take 2 nonsnapshotters. Relays have too much health on higher difficulties and I noticed much better success taking 2 sharpies.

LordYanaek
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by LordYanaek » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:19 pm

nightwyrm wrote:Has anyone tried Snapshooting a Relay with squadsight? You can't miss right? Even with the huge penalties.
Did it, loved it. But then, i loved my snapshooter before that ;)
I didn't use command but i could fire one turn earlier than another sniper and one turn can be a big deal, especially considering the final turn was me evacing away from a badly placed reinforcement.

trihero
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by trihero » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:23 pm

Yeah the real reason I was considering snapshot was move + attack relay, not command double shoot, but honestly I think you guys should try 2 sharpshooters on a relay mission, it's so smooth and fills out your exp gains.

LordYanaek
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Re: Snap Shot?

Post by LordYanaek » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:56 pm

I had 2 of them, one being a snapshooter. That additional shot allowed me to finish the relay at the exact same turn Firebrand arrived and an advent pod dropped on my back :mrgreen:
Might be some luck to make up for my recruiters :lol: Anyway i really think they can be useful in several situations, not just relay missions, but of course it depends on how we play.

Last mission she was on was a ~20-30% infiltration troop column. I also had my best nest sniper on that same mission but there was only a single building approximately in the middle of the border opposite from my landing area. While trying to approach that building i encountered an 8pod and 2 4pods (viper+sectoid). Hid that snapshooter behind a multi-tile high cover so there was no LoS when i started the fight. She then moved to flank a viper in full cover from the rest of the squad and critted it for 17. Of course a rifle shinobi can also do this, but later in the mission she took several flanks at squadsight (barely) staying safe and out of vision of Advent. She also have better aim than a shinobi could ever dream of. When i finally reached the roof for the last pod, she performed only slightly worse than the nest sniper due to relatively close proximity.

She will do even better when she can finally get Run n Gun from AWC, but even without this she's useful outside of relay for me, but then the grenadier is sting grenadier and not a cover blower so taking flanks is actually useful. Something great about LW2 (this was also true of LW1) is that there is rarely an obvious best way to do something. There are multiple options and everyone can find their own best way to handle a situation. Snapshooters are a perfect example, they can be really great or totally suck depending on how you play and the rest of the squad's composition.

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