If you could "rig" the AWC...

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trihero
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If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by trihero » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:04 am

Assuming you could "select" which AWC perks show up (look at the ini file for the possibilities and tier restrictions) for each class, how would you make the most of the situation? Remember that you can't pick perks that already show up in your normal class tree.

IMO, I would force all defensive perks to

Tier 1: Low Profile
Tier 2: Deep Cover
Tier 3: Tactical Sense

This amounts to ridiculous amounts of defense almost all the time, especially if your front liners are overwatch specced to go into Deep Cover. It also allows for a lot of mobility in the sense of dashing into low cover -> 75% defense, which is before factoring any tac sense.

For the Shinobi, since they can learn low profile/tac sense and therefore have to find something else in the AWC, I would go with flashbanger in Tier 1 and Combat Fitness in Tier 3. For the Sharpshooter, Tier 1 would be Smoker. For Ranger, Tier 3 would be Will to Survive (kinda acts like armor). Technical Tier 3 -> combat fitness.

Offensive perks would be much more varied for my tastes.

Ranger: Steady Hands -> Shredder -> Lethal (this puts their overwatch spec into ridiculous damage output)
Sharpshooter: Steady Hands -> Shredder -> Lethal (typical DFA rooftop camper goes absolutely nuts)
Grenadier: Sprinter -> Aggression -> Bring'em On (frag/fire grenadier gets wtf area explosions)
Shinobi: Sprinter -> Bombardier -> Volatile Mix (combo with the flashbanger defensive perk, they're just scouts to me anyways)
Assault: Deadshot (10% crit) -> Sprinter -> Combat Fitness (movement is a must for assaults, and more crit why not)
Specialist: Center mass -> Aggression -> Bring'em On (pistol focus, big Face Off rounds)
Technical: Sprinter -> Aggression -> Bring'em On (big rocket explosions)
Gunner: Steady Hands -> Locked On -> Holo Target (this is for a traverse fire/shredder/rupture build, to quickly debuff and wreck sectopods/gatekeepers)

There are soooo many fun possibilities out there, and mine is hardly the only way. For instance, you could stack tradecraft on everyone (besides shinobi) in tier 3 if you don't rely on defense too much, so you could squeeze in more men on missions in that way. Or play around with covert/ghostwalker on classes you would not normally consider stealthy. Shadowstrike sat fire/street sweeper? Aww yiss. Guardian/rapid reaction on sharps/gunners/technicals?? Why not.

cerebrawl
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by cerebrawl » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:33 am

Could? You can, off ini editing you go!

XComLW_AWCPack.ini

You'll probably get sick of writing up restriction lines, but it's perfectly possible. :)

LordYanaek
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by LordYanaek » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:19 am

I think trihero perfectly knows how to get into ini files ;)
trihero wrote:Or play around with covert/ghostwalker on classes you would not normally consider stealthy.
I have an assault who got covert. She's really fun to sneak to an enemy pod and open with a devastating trench gun (now Street Sweeper). I trained her in pistol use to better benefit from the shadowkeeper pistol (originally i equipped her with it to regain concealment) and she can really wreak havoc on enemy pods. One fight i managed to re-conceal her and place her off the expected enemy path, she started by blowing a mec with a non-turn ending fan-fire, then eliminated the nearby trooper who didn't knew she was hiding there with a CE shot and ended by wiping 3 more guys with Street Sweeper. 5 guys on her own in a single turn :lol: if i could give her shadowstrike she would be really incredible.

trihero
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by trihero » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:51 pm

cerebrawl wrote:Could? You can, off ini editing you go!

XComLW_AWCPack.ini

You'll probably get sick of writing up restriction lines, but it's perfectly possible. :)
Oh I know I can, that's not the point of the thread though.

Jacke
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Jacke » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:08 pm

Alas, the mod Chooseable AWC Perks doesn't work with LW2. The mod LW2 Soldier AWC Reroll Command does though. So you can reroll the AWC dice for a soldier if you so wish.

Goumindong
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Goumindong » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:35 pm

trihero wrote: Tier 1: Low Profile
Tier 2: Deep Cover
Tier 3: Tactical Sense
Terrible perks(except tac-sense). Only good on an OW build and even then kind of lame. Low profile is +15 defense when not in high cover... that is super weak. Also Hunker should negate overwatch or at least limit it as it reduces vision.

For units that expect to take cover the ideal defensive perks are: Parens implies "decent alternative, listed in ideal order.

Will to Survive(Resilience), Formidable(Hard Target/Cool Under Pressure), Close Combat Specialist(Tactical Sense/Untouchable/combat Fitness),

CCS is probably the best perk in the game. And it works with everything. And it stacks with everything. And its amazing. It changes the face of the game so hard that assaults instantly become the strongest class in the game. The fact that everyone can get it is bonkers. (does not apply to sharpshooters).

CUP is a special case skill that applies mainly if you picked up CCS. Because you're going to have fun with CUP and CCS on the same unit with a shotgun.

For units that are not its

Resilience, Formidable(hard Target/Cool Under Pressure), close combat specialist(tactical sense/untouchable/combat fitness)

For offense things depends more on the class

Shinobi(Gun): Gun shinobi's are great. They get a really good list of high quality skills. We want to accentuate that with Center Mass, Aggression(Chain Shot/Shredder), Lethal(Run and Gun/Hit and Run)

Run and Gun is very nice for setting up flanks and also doing the hit and run thing. Hit and run almost certainly interacts poorly with with serial (which should give you back two actions on a kill*) which is an issue because Shinobi get serial by default. Mainly we just want to make our main gun do even more damage with the utterly hilarious hunter's instinct and lethal combination.

Shinobi(Sword): Close and Personal(Sprinter), Sprinter(Aggression/Bring Em On), Run&Gun. Sword users don't have lots of good options. C&P is the best. More speed synergizes with CCS if they get it. Bring em on and aggression aren't bad but not ideal because you don't want to sprint your sword user into the middle of loads of dudes no matter how good their defensive perks are.(OK, maybe CCS as an exemption)

Ranger: No good options but well. Steady Hands(Shredder), Chain Shot, Serial/(Run and Gun/Lethal). They have no real good options else

Sharpshooter: Steady Hands, Shredder, Lethal(Rupture). They have no real good options else.

Gunner: Salvo, Bombardier(Volatile Mix), Full Kit: Might as well throw grenades and then shoot/suppress.

Gunner(Knife). Fleche, Blademaster, Reaper: Get your shank on

Grenadier: Grazing Fire(shredder), Shredder(grazing fire), Rupture. Might as well shred consistently when not nading everything.

Assault: Deadeye(Shadowstrike/sprinter), Deadshot(Center Mass), Serial

Specialist: Grazing Fire(shredder), Shredder(grazing fire), Rupture.

*I think, don't actually have a combat shinobi that high to test on.

Clibanarius
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Clibanarius » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:04 pm

As someone who loves playing theorycraft with these things, Sprinter and Combat Fitness on slower soldiers or ones who need a boost in mobility, like Assaults and Grenadiers and Technicals or Shinobi, is just friggin' amazing. Serial on Gunners or Assaults. Flashbanger or Smoker with Rapid Deployment are hilarious on a sneaky Shinobi, with the obvious Close & Personal for a kenshi Shinobi. RR on a sniper is hilarious because of Long Watch, especially with Grazing Fire.

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NoDebate
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by NoDebate » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:35 pm

Phantom and Conceal on everyone.

cerebrawl
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by cerebrawl » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:10 am

NoDebate wrote:Phantom and Conceal on everyone.
Phantom actually interferes with overwatch. I'd quite often prefer to be without it.

Notintheface
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Notintheface » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:06 pm

Does anyone know if aggression/BEO work on grenades? I have a grenadier with both AWC skills.

Jadiel
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Jadiel » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:04 pm

Notintheface wrote:Does anyone know if aggression/BEO work on grenades? I have a grenadier with both AWC skills.
BEO definitely does. I'm not sure about aggression, but I think so. Bigger Booms can be a lot of fun on Rangers or Assaults.

Goumindong
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Goumindong » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:38 pm

Notintheface wrote:Does anyone know if aggression/BEO work on grenades? I have a grenadier with both AWC skills.
They should. However its important to note that the base is that grenades have 0% crit and 0 crit damage.

So if you give them +1 crit damage (alone) they cannot crit. And if you give them +30% crit alone they cannot crit either (+0 damage).

You have to have both +crit and +crit damage. So if you roll aggression/BEO remember to pick up Biggest Booms

Razor
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Razor » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:06 pm

If I select the pistol perk that let's you "return fire with your pistol", do I actually have to equip a pistol to use it?

The only pistol I ever equip is the shadow keeper, so this perk is mostly pointless to me unless I don't use a slot in my gear.

Goumindong
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Goumindong » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:44 pm

Razor wrote:If I select the pistol perk that let's you "return fire with your pistol", do I actually have to equip a pistol to use it?

The only pistol I ever equip is the shadow keeper, so this perk is mostly pointless to me unless I don't use a slot in my gear.
Yes, you do. Generally only train pistol perks on soldiers you intend to use pistols on (though worth noting that pistols are very strong on just about everyone)

Notintheface
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Notintheface » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:10 am

I haven't actually tried it but R&G on a sniper might allow him to take two separate shots in combination with DFA. (So you can shoot, kill, DFA kicks in, activate R&G, then shoot again.) Pretty handy if true, like a mini-serial earlier in the game.

stefan3iii
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by stefan3iii » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:48 am

Notintheface wrote:I haven't actually tried it but R&G on a sniper might allow him to take two separate shots in combination with DFA. (So you can shoot, kill, DFA kicks in, activate R&G, then shoot again.) Pretty handy if true, like a mini-serial earlier in the game.
Yes this works, I got Run And Gun on a DFA sharpshooter and it was great.

JulianSkies
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by JulianSkies » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:01 pm

stefan3iii wrote:
Notintheface wrote:I haven't actually tried it but R&G on a sniper might allow him to take two separate shots in combination with DFA. (So you can shoot, kill, DFA kicks in, activate R&G, then shoot again.) Pretty handy if true, like a mini-serial earlier in the game.
Yes this works, I got Run And Gun on a DFA sharpshooter and it was great.
Add command for another kill. (I was blessed in a similar way, but I got Rupture instead of RnG, similarly useful if enemy in short range)

Autoclave
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Autoclave » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:15 am

I am being very modest. I only need Rapid Fire for my Alpha Mike Foxtrot Sniper :D That's it. Cool under pressure and bring'em' on would be good but Rapid Fire will suffice :D

Dwarfling
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Dwarfling » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:17 am

Autoclave wrote:I am being very modest. I only need Rapid Fire for my Alpha Mike Foxtrot Sniper :D That's it. Cool under pressure and bring'em' on would be good but Rapid Fire will suffice :D
I seem to recall from vanilla that I couldn't use Rapid Fire and some other skills with Squadsight.

Elder_Basilisk
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Elder_Basilisk » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:12 am

I landed rupture and chain shot on my shooty holotarget sniper. Neither are usable at squadsight range and so far it looks like serial won't give me back the action I use for them (also true on my shooty shinobi who landed chain shot and took serial). A little disappointing but once you know, you can adjust your play accordingly and still make good use of them.

dstar3k
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by dstar3k » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:34 am

Elder_Basilisk wrote:I landed rupture and chain shot on my shooty holotarget sniper. Neither are usable at squadsight range and so far it looks like serial won't give me back the action I use for them (also true on my shooty shinobi who landed chain shot and took serial). A little disappointing but once you know, you can adjust your play accordingly and still make good use of them.
Have you reported this as a bug?

Because I'd say it is... either they should work with Squadsight, or you shouldn't be able to get them if you have it.

Notintheface
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Notintheface » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:09 am

Elder_Basilisk wrote:I landed rupture and chain shot on my shooty holotarget sniper. Neither are usable at squadsight range and so far it looks like serial won't give me back the action I use for them (also true on my shooty shinobi who landed chain shot and took serial). A little disappointing but once you know, you can adjust your play accordingly and still make good use of them.
Special shots not being usable at squadsight range and serial only refunding action points if the first shot of double-shot abilities kill are both from vanilla if I am not wrong.

Autoclave
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Autoclave » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:10 pm

Dwarfling wrote:
Autoclave wrote:I am being very modest. I only need Rapid Fire for my Alpha Mike Foxtrot Sniper :D That's it. Cool under pressure and bring'em' on would be good but Rapid Fire will suffice :D
I seem to recall from vanilla that I couldn't use Rapid Fire and some other skills with Squadsight.
MY Bad! Rapid Reaction man! Rapid reaction! The most awesome sniper AWC perk. That is basically 3 less advent per every pod.

Elder_Basilisk
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by Elder_Basilisk » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:04 pm

Notintheface wrote:
Elder_Basilisk wrote: Special shots not being usable at squadsight range and serial only refunding action points if the first shot of double-shot abilities kill are both from vanilla if I am not wrong.
I didn't report it as a bug but it's a little hard to tell if it is a vanilla issue or not. Vanilla doesn't give you many options for getting special abilities on snipers or for combining double shot abilities with serial.

That said, i'm not sure the abilities work consistently. Last night I tried out the same sniper. Rupture took one action point but chain shot took two. Not sure why that would be and I was pretty sure I had had a one action point chain shot when I was using a coil long gun. (I just upgraded to plasma Lance)

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rifleman
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Re: If you could "rig" the AWC...

Post by rifleman » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:34 am

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =897239708

This MOD let you select AWC perks as you want. Of course, this mod use the AWC perks restrictions of LW2. It won`t let you pick up the wrong AWC perks that, will lead to a onflicting issue.

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