Which rooms to build first

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Goldenmonkey
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Which rooms to build first

Post by Goldenmonkey » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:04 am

Hi folks, simple question. In what order do you build rooms?
GTS first (duh!)
2nd labratory (Seems logical to me, but I find, that the bigger issue is supplies, so that I can't use the researched tech anyway) or AWC
3rd power
4th ?

Is it better to ruhs to resistance comms? As in: GTS, power, resistance comms, AWC, etc.

I haven't gone much further yet, damn work and a new baby taking all my time. "Shut up you little shit, people are getting raped by alien dildos while you are crying because you are to dumb to fart on your own!"

Jacke
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Jacke » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:23 am

You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.

Goldenmonkey
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Goldenmonkey » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:05 am

Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
So you go PG, before resistance comms?

Jacke
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Jacke » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 am

Goldenmonkey wrote:
Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
So you go PG, before resistance comms?
I did Resistance Communications first thing in the campaign, even before Modular Weapons. I had the supplies and the power to build the PG (got 3 power from missions and PoI). It's looking useful. But I didn't want to research Resistance Radio before getting Combat Armor, having just gotten Laser Weapons and Advanced Laser Weapons. And I have an extra contact from a PoI, so I put off building a Resistance Comms room.

Tuhalu
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Tuhalu » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:19 am

GTS > AWC > Resistance Comms > Lab > Proving Grounds. Build power as needed. Eventually get the Shadow Lab for the story missions.

If you're low on Engineers, consider a Workshop (usually placed in between the Power Room, Resistance Comms and Proving Grounds). With it's +1 power (and +8 power on a power coil!) it can help you squeeze in a bit of extra power too.

The Psi-Lab is not strictly necessary.

The Defense Matrix doesn't really need building unless you see the UFO Dark Event that could chase after the Avenger and can't block it.

Dwarfling
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Dwarfling » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:27 am

I do what Tuhalu does, except I usually delay the AWC a bit to buy a Scientist before the first Supply drop (with money from the first excavation).

Fizpez
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Fizpez » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:18 pm

Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
I'm at work and can't check the game (kind of a noob anyway) - but does building a lab on a coil actually improve it? I've always used the coils for power - this might be my "learn something new every day" thing...

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NoDebate
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by NoDebate » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm

Fizpez wrote:
Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
I'm at work and can't check the game (kind of a noob anyway) - but does building a lab on a coil actually improve it? I've always used the coils for power - this might be my "learn something new every day" thing...
New to LW2. Power Coils give free maintenance to the building on their tile. In the case of the Lab and Shadow Chamber, their power draw exceeds that of a fully upgraded and staffed SPR, making the free maintenance the more "energy efficient" route.

Goldenmonkey
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Goldenmonkey » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:00 pm

thanks :)

Fizpez
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Fizpez » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:33 pm

NoDebate wrote:
Fizpez wrote:
Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
I'm at work and can't check the game (kind of a noob anyway) - but does building a lab on a coil actually improve it? I've always used the coils for power - this might be my "learn something new every day" thing...
New to LW2. Power Coils give free maintenance to the building on their tile. In the case of the Lab and Shadow Chamber, their power draw exceeds that of a fully upgraded and staffed SPR, making the free maintenance the more "energy efficient" route.
And there it is... Thanks for that info.

In the interest of sharing stuff I learned recently that I never thought of (credit Xwynns who just threw it out there as an offhanded comment on one of his videos): Hair triggers on shotguns for Assaults with Close Combat Specialist. I used to think "I almost never Overwatch with a shotgun because its not going to hit anyway" but with CCS its a huge help.

seananigans
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by seananigans » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:51 pm

NoDebate wrote:
Fizpez wrote:
Jacke wrote:You want GTS first, then AWC second. Third will be power unless you get lucky and get PoI's that assign power to the Avenger. In my campaign I did and so I have the PG now too. Have a shielded coil ready for the Laboratory next.
I'm at work and can't check the game (kind of a noob anyway) - but does building a lab on a coil actually improve it? I've always used the coils for power - this might be my "learn something new every day" thing...
New to LW2. Power Coils give free maintenance to the building on their tile. In the case of the Lab and Shadow Chamber, their power draw exceeds that of a fully upgraded and staffed SPR, making the free maintenance the more "energy efficient" route.
I could be wrong, but I swear this functionality was in vanilla? I'm almost certain I put the shadow chamber on a coil for this very reason...

laestic
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by laestic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:19 pm

I always go (below Legend) for a workshop in B2. That means my first buy is an Engineer ar the BM who goes excavate A2 then B2. It's slower start for the first 20 days but it yealds a nice amount of cash, plus you rocks the 2nd month with 2 Gremlins.

I always felt the need to rush GTS a bit troubling. You can sustain the early game (2 monthes) with conventional gear and squad size, esp. in LW2. AWC is, imho, a better 2nd pick to help cope with injuries/

So :
Excavate A2
Excavate B2
Workshop B2
AWC A1
PG A2
Excavate A3
GTS A1
Excavate B1
Resistance Comms B1

By that you should be able to excavate the first shielded power coil to put 1 Power Relay. 2nd Shield coil is reserved for the Shadow Chamber.

LordYanaek
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by LordYanaek » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:39 pm

seananigans wrote:
NoDebate wrote:
Fizpez wrote:
I'm at work and can't check the game (kind of a noob anyway) - but does building a lab on a coil actually improve it? I've always used the coils for power - this might be my "learn something new every day" thing...
New to LW2. Power Coils give free maintenance to the building on their tile. In the case of the Lab and Shadow Chamber, their power draw exceeds that of a fully upgraded and staffed SPR, making the free maintenance the more "energy efficient" route.
I could be wrong, but I swear this functionality was in vanilla? I'm almost certain I put the shadow chamber on a coil for this very reason...
The functionality was in vanilla, what's new to LW2 is that Labs are the biggest energy draw after Shadow Chamber so in vanilla the most efficient build was Power Relay and SC on coils while in LW2 it's Lab and SC.

However, having an exopsed coil ready for an early lab relies on having a coil on 3rd floor which is not guaranteed unless you cheat it with a mod or restart until you have the desired layout.

Dwarfling
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Dwarfling » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:48 pm

laestic wrote:I always go (below Legend) for a workshop in B2. That means my first buy is an Engineer ar the BM who goes excavate A2 then B2. It's slower start for the first 20 days but it yealds a nice amount of cash, plus you rocks the 2nd month with 2 Gremlins.

I always felt the need to rush GTS a bit troubling. You can sustain the early game (2 monthes) with conventional gear and squad size, esp. in LW2. AWC is, imho, a better 2nd pick to help cope with injuries/

So :
Excavate A2
Excavate B2
Workshop B2
AWC A1
PG A2
Excavate A3
GTS A1
Excavate B1
Resistance Comms B1

By that you should be able to excavate the first shielded power coil to put 1 Power Relay. 2nd Shield coil is reserved for the Shadow Chamber.
You should probably be buying an engineer with that cash rather than building a workshop.

The main purpose of the GTS is to let you pick classes (usually training a shinobi and specialist right away), and making an officer out of your first shinobi so that you can better complete VIP extractions and stealth hack missions.

Jacke
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Jacke » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:33 pm

LordYanaek wrote:The functionality was in vanilla, what's new to LW2 is that Labs are the biggest energy draw after Shadow Chamber so in vanilla the most efficient build was Power Relay and SC on coils while in LW2 it's Lab and SC.

However, having an exopsed coil ready for an early lab relies on having a coil on 3rd floor which is not guaranteed unless you cheat it with a mod or restart until you have the desired layout.
Well, there's some randomness that's just silly, that could be overcome by starting many games and selecting one of them, so I see no problem modding it away. I use the mod Commander's OCD to put the open space on the 1st Floor Right and the power coils on 3rd Floor Left and 4th Floor Left
laestic wrote:I always go (below Legend) for a workshop in B2. That means my first buy is an Engineer ar the BM who goes excavate A2 then B2. It's slower start for the first 20 days but it yealds a nice amount of cash, plus you rocks the 2nd month with 2 Gremlins.

I always felt the need to rush GTS a bit troubling. You can sustain the early game (2 monthes) with conventional gear and squad size, esp. in LW2. AWC is, imho, a better 2nd pick to help cope with injuries....

By that you should be able to excavate the first shielded power coil to put 1 Power Relay. 2nd Shield coil is reserved for the Shadow Chamber.
I also plan to put the Workshop on the 2nd Floor Centre.

As for engineers, in LW2 with getting them from Guerrillla Ops missions, I don't buy them in the early game, although that can be haphazard. But within a couple of months, you usually get 3 or so which is suffiicient to get started on excavating. As well, you usually get the first engineer soon enough to excavate out the first floor before you get enough funds to build a AWC, which I put on the 1st Floor Left. I can usually avoid serious injury in the first couple of months.

I start right away with building the GTS and get another 35 supplies for when it's finished to put in an Officer Training Station. It's not for any GTS Tactics, which aren't needed that early (no squad size increase in LW2, although I pick up Vulture and Wet Work as soon as possible). I take Rookies on missions in the first month or so and use Commander's Choice to have power over what soldier class a Rookie becomes. After that, I use the GTS to convert new Rookies 2 every 10 days to build up XCOM, as it become too risky to continue taking Rookies on missions. As well, having Officers early in the first and second months of a campaign is vital, especially in getting them started on ranking up.

LordYanaek
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by LordYanaek » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:32 am

Jacke wrote: Well, there's some randomness that's just silly, that could be overcome by starting many games and selecting one of them, so I see no problem modding it away. I use the mod Commander's OCD to put the open space on the 1st Floor Right and the power coils on 3rd Floor Left and 4th Floor Left
Well, that randomness is there to give you slightly different settings and prevent every game from playing exactly the same way so it's not really silly. Nothing wrong with "cheating" with a mod if you don't like it thought, cheating in a single player game is subjective anyway. My point was that you can't rely on everyone having the same setup.

Frei_Ninjesus
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Frei_Ninjesus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:23 pm

LordYanaek wrote:
Jacke wrote: Well, there's some randomness that's just silly, that could be overcome by starting many games and selecting one of them, so I see no problem modding it away. I use the mod Commander's OCD to put the open space on the 1st Floor Right and the power coils on 3rd Floor Left and 4th Floor Left
Well, that randomness is there to give you slightly different settings and prevent every game from playing exactly the same way so it's not really silly. Nothing wrong with "cheating" with a mod if you don't like it thought, cheating in a single player game is subjective anyway. My point was that you can't rely on everyone having the same setup.
I didn't know such a mod existed. In any case, I would be interested in it because, frankly, I feel like all the "rooms" should be distributed simmetrically if nothing else. As for the randomness, I think there's already enough of it both in the strategic and tactical layers. But as you say, to each his own as long as it's single player.

Jacke
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Jacke » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:56 pm

LordYanaek wrote:
Jacke wrote: Well, there's some randomness that's just silly, that could be overcome by starting many games and selecting one of them, so I see no problem modding it away. I use the mod Commander's OCD to put the open space on the 1st Floor Right and the power coils on 3rd Floor Left and 4th Floor Left
Well, that randomness is there to give you slightly different settings and prevent every game from playing exactly the same way so it's not really silly. Nothing wrong with "cheating" with a mod if you don't like it thought, cheating in a single player game is subjective anyway. My point was that you can't rely on everyone having the same setup.
The only effects of that randomness are where the first room goes, usually the GTS or AWC, and where the max power draw rooms go to be on top of a power coil. And shifting them around really only affects the function of the Workshop in providing gremlins to replace engineers in other rooms. With the shift to scientists in the AWC and Psi Lab, there's less call for engineers in LW2. And some rooms can use more than one engineer, so I imagine it doesn't matter that much to put the Workshop centre on the 2nd or 3rd floor and avoid rooms not needing engineers orthogonal to the Workshop.

But a plan with the spots for the GTS and AWC left and right 1st floor and the Workshop centre 2nd floor gives maximum flexibility. And it would help not to have one more trivial mess of issues to deal with from this sort of RNG silliness when there's so many others of more importance in the game.

LordYanaek
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by LordYanaek » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:28 pm

Well, if you read my post correctly you'll see i'm perfectly fine with the fact that you like to have a fixed setup, however most players play with the setup they have so advices relying on a L3 lab are not always applicable.
It makes a big difference in your game to have an L3 coil for an early lab or two L4 coils!

Solomani
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Solomani » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:28 pm

Probably someone already said this.

The workshop provides power so if you build GTS and AWC first and are lucky enough to have an exposed power coil in a good spot, you can put the workshop there which will be enough to supply two more vital rooms rather than a power generator.

LordYanaek
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by LordYanaek » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:03 pm

That's an option for early power but in the end you might have to build more generators because the Laboratory and Shadow Chambers are extremely power hungry in LW2

Tuhalu
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Tuhalu » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:28 pm

You might have to build a second power room in the late game, but it's truly not a problem then. In fact, it's cheaper than spending 20 elerium on the power room upgrade. If you don't have to build a second power room, all you get is an empty hole in your avenger at the end of the game.

stefan3iii
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by stefan3iii » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:37 am

GTS first, to train the right classes.
Then Workshop and Proving ground, usually around the same time, when you've researched Advent Officer Autopsy so that you can get Incendiary grenades. I think an early AWC isn't very good, using it for healing hurts research too much.

Workshop just pays for itself pretty quick, with the extra digging power.

TheCiroth
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by TheCiroth » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 am

stefan3iii wrote:GTS first, to train the right classes.
Then Workshop and Proving ground, usually around the same time, when you've researched Advent Officer Autopsy so that you can get Incendiary grenades. I think an early AWC isn't very good, using it for healing hurts research too much.

Workshop just pays for itself pretty quick, with the extra digging power.

On Legend, I build the AWC first because wound times are too long otherwise. I've tested building the GTS first and its ok, but the AWC really helps getting things going. That being said, I've gotten a lot of scientists and I don't need Incendiary grenades, I have techs to drop fire everywhere.

Veneficus
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Re: Which rooms to build first

Post by Veneficus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:29 pm

whether I build GTS or AWC is determined by how well my first few missions go. If I get more than 2 soldiers wounded in the first few missions, I go with AWC first, to get promoted soldiers back into action faster.

If I am doing well, I get the GTS in order to start officer training ASAP.

In one campaign I tried building a lab first, but not being able to heal faster or create needed classes makes that option totally unviable.

I really like LW and LW2, but I think as it is, 1.2 eliminates almost all diversity. Early expansion, rushing weapons, and almost no viable diversity in base building is in my opinion a major weakness. The pros still outweigh the cons for me though...

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