Rookie Blackjack: how to manage RNG

[chrisb]

To everyone that saying that they can't play without commander's choice to prevent bad stats-class match ups on soldiers because it makes the game unplayable and not fun: Why don't you just turn NCE and HP off?

Because we want to deal with varied troops but have control on who becomes what soldier class. For example, in the real world, you don't get very far if training to be a sniper if you're not a very very good shot.

Is it really too much to ask to have a positive discussion on strategy on these forums? Some of us like the challenge of not being handed a near perfect squad on day one. I don't know where the need to complain about this comes from. You obviously have a solution that nerfs it for you, why continue to post here if you don't have anything to contribute?

[hewhoispale]

To everyone that saying that they can't play without commander's choice to prevent bad stats-class match ups on soldiers because it makes the game unplayable and not fun: Why don't you just turn NCE and HP off?

Because we want to deal with varied troops but have control on who becomes what soldier class. For example, in the real world, you don't get very far if training to be a sniper if you're not a very very good shot.

But doesn't that just mean you want the highs of good synergy troops without having to deal with the lows of poor synergy troops?
Flavor wise, I have no problem tossing out the standards of high-end military training as XCOM is functionally an insurgent para-military force in LW2. Mechanically, I have no problem with making the early game subject to extra randomness if the player checks the "give me more randomness" boxes.
Personally, I used training roulette in LW1 and enjoyed getting really dumb builds on weird soldiers. So it sounds like we have diametrically opposed approaches to the game.

[chrisb]

To everyone that saying that they can't play without commander's choice to prevent bad stats-class match ups on soldiers because it makes the game unplayable and not fun: Why don't you just turn NCE and HP off?

Because we want to deal with varied troops but have control on who becomes what soldier class. For example, in the real world, you don't get very far if training to be a sniper if you're not a very very good shot.

But doesn't that just mean you want the highs of good synergy troops without having to deal with the lows of poor synergy troops?
Flavor wise, I have no problem tossing out the standards of high-end military training as XCOM is functionally an insurgent para-military force in LW2. Mechanically, I have no problem with making the early game subject to extra randomness if the player checks the "give me more randomness" boxes.
Personally, I used training roulette in LW1 and enjoyed getting really dumb builds on weird soldiers. So it sounds like we have diametrically opposed approaches to the game.

I tried training roulette once in LW1. My inner min-maxer was driven to insanity! I like some RNG, but that was too much Was fun to see some of the wierd combos. I'd probably do it on Veteran in LW2 if I get bored some day if there's a mod for it.

[Jacke]

Is it really too much to ask to have a positive discussion on strategy on these forums? Some of us like the challenge of not being handed a near perfect squad on day one. I don't know where the need to complain about this comes from. You obviously have a solution that nerfs it for you, why continue to post here if you don't have anything to contribute?

Who says the squad, even as I play it, is near bloody perfect? No control over AWC skills, facing the same soldier skills trade-offs, facing which tech gets researched to improve their kit, etc. But if as Commander I don't decide what class a soldier becomes, who does? The Magic XCOM Faeries? Part of strategy is preparing your troops for battle and that includes training and equipping them right.

I like my challenges in a game to have a correspondence to what the challenges would be with real people in that situation. You have a limited number of troops and need them to be the best they can be to face an opponent who crushed Earth's Armed Forces 20 years ago and has dominated ever since. And you're going to be okay with a crap Aim Sharpshooter ?!?

But I do agree with you about Rookie Blackjack. It's mind-boggling complex and only partly improves the chance of better soldier class selection. Seems much more complex than counting cards in regular Blackjack.

[chrisb]

Is it really too much to ask to have a positive discussion on strategy on these forums? Some of us like the challenge of not being handed a near perfect squad on day one. I don't know where the need to complain about this comes from. You obviously have a solution that nerfs it for you, why continue to post here if you don't have anything to contribute?

Who says the squad, even as I play it, is near bloody perfect? No control over AWC skills, facing the same soldier skills trade-offs, facing which tech gets researched to improve their kit, etc. But if as Commander I don't decide what class a soldier becomes, who does? The Magic XCOM Faeries? Part of strategy is preparing your troops for battle and that includes training and equipping them right.

I like my challenges in a game to have a correspondence to what the challenges would be with real people in that situation. You have a limited number of troops and need them to be the best they can be to face an opponent who crushed Earth's Armed Forces 20 years ago and has dominated ever since. And you're going to be okay with a crap Aim Sharpshooter ?!?

WTF. You just can't help yourself can you? Fine, you don't like it, why continue to spam this thread with your whining. It's people like you who make me not want to post here. If the information is not useful to you then move on! But please stop spamming with your whining and moaning!

[dstar3k]

Is it really too much to ask to have a positive discussion on strategy on these forums? Some of us like the challenge of not being handed a near perfect squad on day one. I don't know where the need to complain about this comes from. You obviously have a solution that nerfs it for you, why continue to post here if you don't have anything to contribute?

Who says the squad, even as I play it, is near bloody perfect? No control over AWC skills, facing the same soldier skills trade-offs, facing which tech gets researched to improve their kit, etc. But if as Commander I don't decide what class a soldier becomes, who does? The Magic XCOM Faeries? Part of strategy is preparing your troops for battle and that includes training and equipping them right.

I like my challenges in a game to have a correspondence to what the challenges would be with real people in that situation. You have a limited number of troops and need them to be the best they can be to face an opponent who crushed Earth's Armed Forces 20 years ago and has dominated ever since. And you're going to be okay with a crap Aim Sharpshooter ?!?

WTF. You just can't help yourself can you? Fine, you don't like it, why continue to spam this thread with your whining. It's people like you who make me not want to post here. If the information is not useful to you then move on! But please stop spamming with your whining and moaning!

Dude.

The hell is wrong with you?

There's no call for that.

[chrisb]

Who says the squad, even as I play it, is near bloody perfect? No control over AWC skills, facing the same soldier skills trade-offs, facing which tech gets researched to improve their kit, etc. But if as Commander I don't decide what class a soldier becomes, who does? The Magic XCOM Faeries? Part of strategy is preparing your troops for battle and that includes training and equipping them right.

I like my challenges in a game to have a correspondence to what the challenges would be with real people in that situation. You have a limited number of troops and need them to be the best they can be to face an opponent who crushed Earth's Armed Forces 20 years ago and has dominated ever since. And you're going to be okay with a crap Aim Sharpshooter ?!?

WTF. You just can't help yourself can you? Fine, you don't like it, why continue to spam this thread with your whining. It's people like you who make me not want to post here. If the information is not useful to you then move on! But please stop spamming with your whining and moaning!

Dude.

The hell is wrong with you?

There's no call for that.

I have two gears for dealing with people. I start off asking nicely. When they spit in my face I stop being nice about it. Nothing I said was out of line. His response was the same whining and moaning. Is that what this forum is for? Sorry then, I was mistaking it for a place to share ideas and strategies. Not as a pitty party for whinos.

[DonCrabio]

Well, you inspired me to try your solution, so I turned Commanders Choice off and started new campaign, beaten Gatecrusher, saved game and begin my experiments.

Well, generally it worked, I got better average results, but still, only 2-3 soldiers will go to my A-team and most of them end up as backup or heaven advisers with really narrowly specialized builds.

In the end I was able to describe what exactly bothers me, this layer of RNG does not bring any benefit to the player, only losses, I feel just punished for no reason.

[chrisb]

Well, you inspired me to try your solution, so I turned Commanders Choice off and started new campaign, beaten Gatecrusher, saved game and begin my experiments.

Well, generally it worked, I got better average results, but still, only 2-3 soldiers will go to my A-team and most of them end up as backup or heaven advisers with really narrowly specialized builds.

In the end I was able to describe what exactly bothers me, this layer of RNG does not bring any benefit to the player, only losses, I feel just punished for no reason.

For me at least, the reason I like the mechanic is that it makes you work with soldiers who aren't perfect fits or close to it. I guess I don't look at it as punishing, but rather as making the campaign unique. Any time I played with CC I felt like I was just being handing a near perfect A-team right from the start, and it took a lot away from the uniqueness. There's a lot of perks/builds that you would never use if you had all the right stats for every class. Those perks become a lot more interesting when dealing with soldiers who are sub par. I also feel like this plays into the guerilla war theme a lot more. You make do with what you have and don't always get what you want.

Getting even 3 A-team at the start to me is great. You'll generally be able to use the GTS for at least 3-4 picks afterwards out of the rest that were not on Gatecrasher. The rest may come from missions or the market. But really you don't need an all-star team, and personally I find I get bored if I do have it since they just roll through things.

In general, I like having a handicap at the start because I like the challenge of having to work with sub par. If you play it right it's not that bad and you can often make less commonly used builds work. Sometimes you end up with a dud, but I don't let this hamper my play. I just find a way to make use of that soldier as much as I can and move on. No matter what sort of draw I got on soldiers, I've always found a way to make it work. It might mean I can't just make all the best builds and I think that's a good thing, it enriches the game for me. I found CC just made all my soldiers near clones of each other and ended up with 2-3 squads that were identical to each other. I don't think I ever completed a campaign with CC for this very reason.