I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Share strategy and tips here.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I need some help, basically it feels like the enemy's hp is skyrocketing out of control and I can't get enough offensive tools. They had 14 hp advent officers and 12 hp 2 armor mutons (along with early scope and snake flank damage dark events) when I was still with ballistic weaponry (during one retaliation it took four assaults run and gun to down one muton, holy moly), and soon after I started purchasing laser weaponry they start deploying 31 hp archons. I haven't even had the money to buy an AWC/proving grounds yet, and it's July o.o. I bought one scientist early on (couldn't get any from rescues), and GTS -> wet work/vulture then used supplies on laser weapons. Combat armor research just finished and magnetic weapons is undergoing research.

I "skipped" two rendezvous missions because I just couldn't chew through the last pod with double 12 hp faceless + officer + something else with ballistic weaponry and LCPLs as advisers. I.e. evacced to get the faceless out of the haven but obviously no corpses, items, or exp.

My first network tower was nearly a complete disaster where there were 16 enemies on the map (the best I could infiltrate to without wasting another couple months waiting for strength to go down), the minimum hp of which was 9. Even when I crit with scatter rays to the face I often left them with one hp which caused a lot of headaches/wounds later. I had to save scum it a few times =.=

Not sure if it's normal, but I've noticed on legendary I can't really handle "very light" missions, especially in ballistic gear. Every time I attempt one deliberately, or one is handed to me because of a strength spike during infiltration, I get whooped. The extra 3 mobs present a bunch of extra hp to chew through when they charge into battle; just enough to cause multiple wounds and even deaths. Thus I actually skip tons of missions with 4-5 days left because I can't get enough men/infiltration to get to 5-6 men on extremely lights. Is that usual, or are you legend players routinely and easily defeating very lights in str 3+ regions?

I'm getting to the point where I don't know how to do missions anymore; they typically feel like the first pod is in the way of the objective so I don't have time to move around it (especially with vigilance dark event up), but it takes me 2-3 rounds to kill off the pod due to such crazy high hp. I've done my best to fill my team with assaults/shinobis since they have good damage output in the early game by ignoring cover, but it's still slow going and feels bad when I have to spend 2-3 rounds to finish off everything in one pod, then the reinforcements go yellow and I'm nowhere near the objective.

I have 4 regions; one I'm currently liberating, one is recently contacted and recruiting to build up, one is nearly at max working pop so I'll migrate there soon, and one full on intel looking for opportunities.

Am I doing something terribly wrong? Or maybe this is normal for legendary; it is supposed to be a challenge after all. Any hints/tips would be appreciated!
Franzy
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:05 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Franzy »

On legendary you basically HAVE TO rush advanced weapons, at least lasers, as enemies have lots of hp. You should have mags in July, or else you're basically done.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I mean what do you cut to actually build the laser weapons, though? I think I made the right choice to not build the AWC at all yet (150 supplies = 6 x advanced laser weapons, I got 3 lances + 3 rays with the money "saved"). Maybe I shouldn't have taken vulture so early either?

Another example of a fun mission was I was still in ballistic weapons and the first pod was gunner (7 hp), adv officer (14 hp), and mech (10 + 2 armor? something like that). Even though I had conceal ambush, it took my 6 men 2 full rounds to go through it all, and I had to "eat" some micromissiles on top of it. There was still a pod of 3 snakes on the map (12-13 hp each), along with another officer + stun lancer. =______=
Saph7
Long War 2 Crew
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Saph7 »

I'm not sure how you're so low on resources. If you've had no scientists then presumably you're getting a bunch of other missions, so you should have a decent amount of supply, at least? I found that once I researched lasers I was able to equip my squads with them fairly quickly. Finding cash for Predator has been much harder, to the point that my Legend game's in July and I still have less than half my soldiers geared up in it.

It might be that you're not doing enough missions to keep up with the difficulty curve. On Legend the biggest threat is the enemy force level clock – you have to keep up with the FL increases or you'll end up in the position you're describing, where you're trying to kill advanced enemies with ballistic weapons. The best way to do that is to spam as many missions as possible. My Legend campaign's in late July and I've got Mag and I'm working towards Elerium, but to get to that I had long periods where I had literally every single soldier in my barracks working non stop – if they weren't infiltrating and weren't training in the GTS/AWC, they were in the medbay, and anyone left over was working in a haven. There's very little room for error on Legend difficulty.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Dwarfling »

You lagged on research I believe, or you took a long detour (maybe autopsies and/or datapads?), because I'm at 6/29/2035 (seeing ADVENT MK2 and Archers, about to see Centurions I think), finished Mag some days ago and I'm working on Advanced Mag. I've been rocking EXO for almost a month.

Details:

- 29/06/2035
- 3 scientists: 1 from mission, 2 from Black Market.
- 6 engineers: missions and a POI. No soldier rescue so I got lucky here.
- 2 liberation chains completed, on home region and 2nd region. 2nd region liberated a month ago. Home HQ about to start infiltration.
- GTS built first, then Scientist purchased before 1st supply drop, then another Scientist next month, then AWC.
- Laboratory built around beginnings of June or a bit earlier, currently 2 slots. Then Proving Ground (with liberation supplies).
- Free Viper autopsy.
- Completed techs: Advanced Laser Weapons, 1 Basic Research (after Adv Laser), Battle Armor, Officer autopsy, ADVENT Robotics. Magnetic Weapons just completed.
- 4 contacted regions (captured VIP from 1st lib chain)
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I've skipped a lot of missions like I said because I couldn't get to extremely light with 5-6 men. Every time I go to very light I just get a squad wipe. This is even though I typically have 90-100% of rebels on intel and avenger scan, whenever possible in a region with a radio relay.

I have 2 engineers and 2 scientists total by July 8th (bought one scientist from the black market, just rescued the second engineer and scientist both within the past week). I've had quite a few rescue soldier missions. I'm in the process of liberating my first region and there was no way I could have done it earlier (I had to bail out of my home region since it was at level 6 strength, so I'm liberating a region next door). I have 4 contacted regions as well. I was trying to do liberation earlier because I knew supplies would be an issue but again, the rising strength in the first region I tried to do a lib chain in had me switch out.

So by July 8th:

Infiltrating my first HQ

GTS is my only building; I've been putting supplies into weapons and research, vulture/wet work.

I've used intel boosts very sparingly and still I'm at roughly 10 or 20 intel right now. I do not have very many supplies.

I have mag weapons/combat armor finished, 0 elerium to make any mag weapons, and about 150 supplies in the bank so I can start making an AWC if I want to, or maybe I should go proving grounds to get some alloy plating.

My alloy count is fairly decent, 90 something.

How many laser weapons do you guys buy and at what points in the game? I have 4 scatter rays, 3 laser canons (including the one you get from adv laser research), 1 laser rifle (from the basic laser research), 3 laser lances, and I'm at 0 elerium so I can't build any more.

Dark events: feels like fifty million of them, including hard target, scope, defense, flanky snake shots, and they just popped Show of Force on me which feels like a death sentence. I tried to counter whatever I could when I had the chance, but I think it's fairly typical to have a nasty list of DEs on legendary.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by stefan3iii »

My opinion is that research is probably your most critical resource, and is easily overlooked. Getting enough research, and spending it wisely is how you get the damage output you need to keep pace with the alien tech. With that in mind:
1) You should almost certainly be purchasing one or two scientists very early, possibly even before any buildings.
2) Early AWC and Psi Lab are traps, not only do they cost a lot to build, but they require scientists to staff to be really effective, drastically cutting your early game research. Save these for later, when you have 5+ scientists.
3) Science Lab is a really good building, and should probably be the second or third building after GTS/Proving Grounds.
4) Critical tech: Nanovests, Laser and/or Mag Weapons, Incendiary Grenades, EXO Suits, Stilett\Venom Rounds. Nanovests let you make riskier plays with shinobis, assaults and technicals, increasing their damage. Incendiaries are incredibly good at taking out one or more enemies completely out of the fight regardless of HP. Once you've done a rendezvous or two can get Stiletto rounds, which are cheap and very effective, basically boosting your weapon an entire tier.
5) Starting with Resistance Comms -> Basic Research might be a good idea.

After research, you also need enough supplies to actually build the things you research, spend them very carefully. You should expect most of your supplies going towards equipment. Buy equipment that has maximum impact first, ex Incendiaries, Sharpshooter/Gunner/Ranger/Assault weapons, EXO Suits.

You should definitely have lasers before the end of April. I would do EXO Suits next if you have enough alloys, otherwise I'd go for incendiaries, then EXO, and then Mag.

Only other mistake I think players make is not bringing enough damage to missions. Your squad with a healing specialist, a hacking specialist, and a holo officer may be super cool, but you're never going to kill anything. Stack the things that do damage, generally pick the perks that do damage, and murder everything the turn it activates. Early game assaults, shinobis, and technicals will carry the day. Later rangers/gunners/sharpshooters bring a lot of damage to the party. Grenadiers spike in effectiveness once they get incendiaries and sting grenades. Specialists are basically a luxury you bring to get hack rewards, if a mission is hard, don't bring one.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

Yup I agree with you a lot stefanii, especially about bring enough damage. I already have been doing what you'ved pointed out since I figured most of that for myself. I purchase 1 science early, ignore AWC/psi, I look for nanovest/lasers, etc. I however have no money to get proving grounds -> incendiary (it cuts into laser weapon money).

My research order is comms -> basic research -> basic research -> laser lines -> combat armor. I don't think the second basic research hurts me really; I don't have money at that point anyways to purchase enough lasers to make a difference.

I think perhaps my biggest issue/question is one I have raised twice now, but I'll raise it again:

Do you guys on legendary routinely ignore "very light" missions? I almost always get a squad wipe or deaths when it goes to very light, meaning I skip a lot of missions like that. I seem to get a lot of missions that I can only fit in 4-5 people and they're very light...which is really bad. I can comfortably (but not effortlessly) do 6 man extremely light missions, but maybe it's bad luck/lack of intel that I can't do much more than that.

And I honestly can't even win the first few rendezvous since I have ballistic weapons, LCPLs, and the last pod is two 12 hp faceless + officer + something else. I always lose at least 2 rebels if not more to the last pod, and I'm honestly not sure it's worth the time spent trying to get the rebels back so I've been evaccing rendezvous (which throws the faceless out at least).

I always wince when I take along a medic specialist since their damage is generally poor (I equip them with SMG to maneuver to the objective better, and I only bring along specialists when there's a hacking objective to get a chance at more resources), and the only true support type I'm willing to take is one defensive grenadier. Holo sharps are completely out of the question for both timed and untimed maps; timed for obvious reasons, untimed since DFA is superior by far and you don't have the space to be playing around with extra lots on legendary to fit a holo sharp in.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by stefan3iii »

trihero wrote: I think perhaps my biggest issue/question is one I have raised twice now, but I'll raise it again:

Do you guys on legendary routinely ignore "very light" missions? I almost always get a squad wipe or deaths when it goes to very light, meaning I skip a lot of missions like that. I seem to get a lot of missions that I can only fit in 4-5 people and they're very light...which is really bad. I can comfortably (but not effortlessly) do 6 man extremely light missions, but maybe it's bad luck/lack of intel that I can't do much more than that.
I avoid Very Light missions, they're significantly harder than Extremely Light. I start doing them once I can stack enough EXO suits on a squad, and the mission is a valuable one. The other exception would be an Ambush Troop column, which are more valuable the harder they are, and have no timers so you can cheese them with patience.

Later in the game Very Light and beyond become easier, as you start to out tech the aliens.

For rendezvous missions it's critical that you open with a beaglerush manuever, makes the mission a lot easier. Should also be your general opener in most missions, though sometimes a really good flame or incendiary is better.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

stefan3iii wrote:
trihero wrote: I think perhaps my biggest issue/question is one I have raised twice now, but I'll raise it again:

Do you guys on legendary routinely ignore "very light" missions? I almost always get a squad wipe or deaths when it goes to very light, meaning I skip a lot of missions like that. I seem to get a lot of missions that I can only fit in 4-5 people and they're very light...which is really bad. I can comfortably (but not effortlessly) do 6 man extremely light missions, but maybe it's bad luck/lack of intel that I can't do much more than that.
I avoid Very Light missions, they're significantly harder than Extremely Light. I start doing them once I can stack enough EXO suits on a squad, and the mission is a valuable one. The other exception would be an Ambush Troop column, which are more valuable the harder they are, and have no timers so you can cheese them with patience.

Later in the game Very Light and beyond become easier, as you start to out tech the aliens.

For rendezvous missions it's critical that you open with a beaglerush manuever, makes the mission a lot easier. Should also be your general opener in most missions, though sometimes a really good flame or incendiary is better.
Hmm I don't know what I'm doing wrong them. Maybe it's just a lot of bad luck because I don't feel like I'm completing enough missions/getting enough wards, and it's the very lights that are rocking my world. I've skipped a lot of valuable missions and lost a lot of time.

Beaglerush maneuver isn't new to me; I always do it on rendezvous on the first pod which gets wiped easy but the last pod has two 12 hp faceless + officer + something else = lose a lot of rebels.

Yeah I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, most things I'm doing are the same as you guys.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by stefan3iii »

trihero wrote: Hmm I don't know what I'm doing wrong them. Maybe it's just a lot of bad luck because I don't feel like I'm completing enough missions/getting enough wards, and it's the very lights that are rocking my world. I've skipped a lot of valuable missions and lost a lot of time.

Beaglerush maneuver isn't new to me; I always do it on rendezvous on the first pod which gets wiped easy but the last pod has two 12 hp faceless + officer + something else = lose a lot of rebels.

Yeah I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, most things I'm doing are the same as you guys.
Rendezvous aren't supposed to be hard. If you fall behind on weapons tech, then that can be a problem as your rebels will be stuck with low tier weapons. There is rng involved too, generally the more shotguns your rebels have the better. I think Rangers are generally the best haven advisers for actually doing rendezvous missions, so consider slotting more of those in. Assaults also work really well.

Sometimes you do get a particularly bad one and you have to resort to using flashbangs to kite. If it truly is hopeless, just evac out, you won't get the loot but you'll at least have removed the faceless.
sacho
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by sacho »

trihero wrote: I've skipped a lot of missions like I said because I couldn't get to extremely light with 5-6 men. Every time I go to very light I just get a squad wipe. This is even though I typically have 90-100% of rebels on intel and avenger scan, whenever possible in a region with a radio relay.
trihero wrote: I think perhaps my biggest issue/question is one I have raised twice now, but I'll raise it again:

Do you guys on legendary routinely ignore "very light" missions? I almost always get a squad wipe or deaths when it goes to very light, meaning I skip a lot of missions like that. I seem to get a lot of missions that I can only fit in 4-5 people and they're very light...which is really bad. I can comfortably (but not effortlessly) do 6 man extremely light missions, but maybe it's bad luck/lack of intel that I can't do much more than that.
I agree with you that these might be your biggest issues. Past the first few missions(rookies suck), you should be able to do many of the extremely lights going loud with 4 people. Very lights are doable with 5-6. I don't know what you're doing wrong, have you watched joinrbs and xwynns and the way they approach missions, is there a significant difference in tempo, skill usage, etc? I used to save consumables, try to greed for more loot instead of blowing up aliens, etc...those were causing unnecessary wounds and deaths. You should have a good assessment of your team's capability when you launch the mission - am I going to fight everything and collect all the loot? Am I going to beeline for the objective and try to avoid fights? Some missions you will attempt will be hampered by the map significantly - don't be afraid to cut your losses and EVAC.

I don't think buying a scientist and doing basic research twice is a good idea. Do you skip modular weapons? Some classes really depend on boosts to their guns(rangers, sharpshooters), others can use a single item to boost their effectiveness considerably(assault + auto-loader means you never have to stop moving). I'm not sure how you have no money for lasers that late - are you selling stuff from your inventory? Laser SMGs are a huge boost to 4-man missions. What are you spending your supply on?
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Extremely lights with 4 people is too risky for me, and on very lights all the mobs seem to pull each other especially on the small 8 turn maps. Stefanni also avoids very lights, so I'm not so sure that's an error per se. I notice that in the tactical layer the biggest difference between difficulties is on legend even if you crit them really hard, they tend to survive with 1 or 2 hp, and that's constantly bothersome. I can do just fine with 5 or 6 people on extremely light, but there seems to be no wiggle room for me. If I try 5 or 6 on very light the timers get super tight and I get a death or two, if I try 4 on extremely light same deal, I try to use intel boosts when I think the mission is very critical but sometimes those still don't reduce the strength enough due to unlucky influx of strength.
I don't think buying a scientist and doing basic research twice is a good idea. Do you skip modular weapons? Some classes really depend on boosts to their guns(rangers, sharpshooters), others can use a single item to boost their effectiveness considerably(assault + auto-loader means you never have to stop moving). I'm not sure how you have no money for lasers that late - are you selling stuff from your inventory? Laser SMGs are a huge boost to 4-man missions. What are you spending your supply on?
I'm not having problems because of my research path, I already mentioned it that I wouldn't have had money to use on items even if I skipped the 2nd basic research. I'm having problems with finding money to buy weapons, it's not an issue of having the research too late, and I've asked it once but I'll ask it again: how many laser weapons do you guys buy and at what times?

I've watched xwynns but I can't really figure out what's so different. He's run into some bad very light missions from what I remember so we're no different in doing poorly on those. He squad wiped on a smash and grab, which I haven't yet. Joinrbs I avoid like the plague since he took the time to insult me personally on these forums, and never made up for it even when I brought it to the devs attention. Bad blood.

Yes I sell items. My supply expenditure went something like this: GTS -> sell items from gatecrasher to buy scientist -> wet work -> vulture -> buy whatever lasers make sense. Wet work seems to have no requirements or very low requirements and the idea was for me to quickly raise a sergeant to get Trial by Fire, which I achieved successfully and churned out batches of sergeants after that. No money for AWC or proving grounds or other buildings, and I haven't bought anything other than one scientist from the black market.

I think part of it has to be bad luck, there have slightly too many missions I've had to skip for one reason or the other, and I've found a whopping total of 2 engineers by July 8th, the second one which was rescued in the last week. I know rendezvous aren't supposed to be hard and I've done hundreds of them by this point, just can't seem to wing it in early game legend when again, you're facing down a 4 pod consisting of two 12 hp faceless + officer + something else. Yes I use flashbangs, kiting, etc, but especially with advent scopes they are getting 30% shots through high cover and whenever I can't quite finish off a faceless due to rebel accuracy even at close to point blank range, those melee swipes get one or two people as well.

Thinking back on it some more, I will admit that perhaps I stayed in my home region just a little bit too long, like I waited until the strength felt actually bad on missions before I switched. I did some very early scanning in adjacent regions looking for rescue missions (which I got soldiers from, no scientists/engineers), then I drilled my home region hard in hopes of liberating because I wanted those supplies really badly, but had to bail out when it hit str6. When I hit the adjacent region's network tower it was 5 and it was brutal even with 4 scatterrays and infiltrated down to Light.
Jacke
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:10 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Jacke »

From a comment on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Xcom/comments/ ... _types_in/), a haiku.
One hundred options.
One correct choice to be made.
None I can afford.
Manifest
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:30 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Manifest »

If it's just one campaign, you should be free to assume bad luck.

Not that it isn't worthwhile to try, but I'd wager it's probably impossible to really find the issue (or it might be many small issues) just from secondhand recounting anyways.
Dwarfling
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Dwarfling »

- You really shouldn't be skipping Very Light missions if you can field at least 5 soldiers. 6 is best, but I think if you can do 6, you should be able to get to 125% with 5. You might want to bring 6 for the experience, but in doing so you might be short on people for another mission. The way I go about all my missions during the early game is by bringing as many frags as possible. 2 frags and ceramic with SMG on rookies, specialists and rangers (until laser). Technicals and Shinobis can afford to bring frag + flashbang. Gunners too but mobility might be an issue. On Assaults I mostly bring frag, ceramic and empty slot. If my sharpshooter came with low aim it's 2xfrag too. Grenadiers I take with 3 frags and a flashbang.

I try to find the first pod as fast as I can, open with the best AoE available trying to use frags right away to kill that first pod on one turn and have the last frag available for the next pod. Then I go all out on frags again on the 2nd pod so that I can take on the last pod without worrying about triggering more. Hopefully you still have frags for those, but now you can freely use Run&Gun, Point Blank and Fleche.

- I think going for Vulture and Wet Work early is a mistake, that's a Scientist you didn't purchase. I don't believe in Vulture "paying for itself", because unless you get extra elerium cores, and you actually sell all the loot, you are gonna take more than a month to reap benefits, and you can purchase the Tactics when you actually have a cash flow. And you have to play riskier just to get those benefits, instead of blowing everything up.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

Huh, maybe I'm not doing as badly as I thought. Looking at xwynn's run, he's at a later date (July 13th) and just did his first network tower, and has like 20 supply income. I'm July 8th working on my first HQ with +200 income.

On Very Lights with 5, how do you do small maps (8 turn timers)? I pull about 10 mobs at once since they are near the objective, and they are spread out in high cover which is over the top.
- I think going for Vulture and Wet Work early is a mistake, that's a Scientist you didn't purchase. I don't believe in Vulture "paying for itself", because unless you get extra elerium cores, and you actually sell all the loot, you are gonna take more than a month to reap benefits, and you can purchase the Tactics when you actually have a cash flow. And you have to play riskier just to get those benefits, instead of blowing everything up.
What would I need the scientist for? I dont' have the elerium to make weapons with.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by stefan3iii »

trihero wrote:Huh, maybe I'm not doing as badly as I thought. Looking at xwynn's run, he's at a later date (July 13th) and just did his first network tower, and has like 20 supply income. I'm July 8th working on my first HQ with +200 income.

On Very Lights with 5, how do you do small maps (8 turn timers)? I pull about 10 mobs at once since they are near the objective, and they are spread out in high cover which is over the top.
- I think going for Vulture and Wet Work early is a mistake, that's a Scientist you didn't purchase. I don't believe in Vulture "paying for itself", because unless you get extra elerium cores, and you actually sell all the loot, you are gonna take more than a month to reap benefits, and you can purchase the Tactics when you actually have a cash flow. And you have to play riskier just to get those benefits, instead of blowing everything up.
What would I need the scientist for? I dont' have the elerium to make weapons with.
I would not suggest looking to Xwynns on the generating supply front, for some reason he barely ever does it. In his first campaign, he was generating like 200 supplies when he had 3 liberated regions in December, and complained about not having money. I mean he's a really good player, but I think he's making a big mistake there.

That said 200 is "ok", though I would expect to have a full 13 rebel haven doing supplies by July, which should generate about 350+ supplies. In my current game I have about ~500 in July, and am still generating enough missions to keep 4 5-6 man teams infiltrating simultaneously. A part of this is micromanaging your havens early on, swapping to Recruit from Intel when you've generated two missions in a region, and then back again when those missions complete. This gets your haven counts up faster, giving you a better econ moving into the mid game once you've rooted out the faceless.

Regarding laser weapons. I don't buy laser SMGs, the soldiers using SMGs usually don't actually shoot often enough. Priority is Rangers, Sharpshooters, Gunners, and Assaults. Having even a couple of these on a mission is a big boost in reliable damage, you don't have to be able to afford to deck out all your squads the moment you research advanced lasers. Lasers in April is a big deal, even if you can only afford a handful.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

when you've generated two missions in a region,
What's the reason for this? The mission cap has been raised.
stefan3iii
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:49 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by stefan3iii »

trihero wrote:
when you've generated two missions in a region,
What's the reason for this? The mission cap has been raised.
Oh, there can be more than 2 GOPs in a region? I assume there is still some sort of cap though, so once you've detected a couple you're getting diminishing returns on the value of your intel. Better to go put another region on intel.
Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Antifringe »

trihero wrote:
when you've generated two missions in a region,
What's the reason for this? The mission cap has been raised.
I don't think that this is true? I do a lot of snooping with LWDumpRegionActivity, and I've never seen more than 2 GOPS in a region, ever. And yes, I have been checking in 1.4 as well.

Obviously, with Liberations, Dark Events, Supply Raids, and UFOs, you can have more than 2 missions in a region, but this isn't anything new. The Liberation mission is always present, and if I care about the Lib chain in that region, I will push intel until I get 3 missions (Intel +2 GOPs), but after that, switching to recruit for one round of recruiting is usually the right call.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I've seen 5-6 of those green target arrow missions in one region, and I saw a different poster mention the cap was raised in 1.4.

Additionally, I've also seen 2 rescue engineer missions in one region 5 days apart from each other, contrary to "diminishing returns" that you would see in 1.2.
Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Antifringe »

trihero wrote:I've seen 5-6 of those green target arrow missions in one region, and I saw a different poster mention the cap was raised in 1.4.
I don't know what you mean by "green target arrow missions," but GOPs don't look like anything in particular. They can be the crosshaired soldier or the man running from building icon, and lots of other activities generate those icons too.

Are you sure the poster in question didn't mean that Logistics was added to the pool? That's an extra GOPs type, not an extra GOP slot. I have a savegame with 8 contacted regions, and inspecting the log shows lots of regions with 2 GOPS, but not a single one with three. And as I said before, I have never seen 3 GOPs in a region before. I'm using the log, so there isn't any guesswork here, I know exactly what activities are involved.
Additionally, I've also seen 2 rescue engineer missions in one region 5 days apart from each other, contrary to "diminishing returns" that you would see in 1.2.
That doesn't mean what you think it does. Both ProtectData and HighValuePrisoner are common GOP activities that can happen in parallel, and both can generate engineer/scientist/soldier rescues. The rare ProtectResearch activity can also spawn a rescue mission. I have seen 3 rescues in one region before, and checking the log confirmed that the GOP limit wasn't being broken (it was a ProtectData, a HighValuePrisoner, and a ProtectRegionMid, for what it matters).

EDIT: Propaganda was removed from the GOP pool in 1.4, which might be what you are referring to. It can now spawn independently of GOPs, and doesn't count against the limit. It was kind of needed, because it was a stone cold terrible use of one of your GOP slots.
trihero
Posts: 1099
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:01 am

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by trihero »

I have seen 3 rescues in one region before, and checking the log confirmed that the GOP limit wasn't being broken (it was a ProtectData, a HighValuePrisoner, and a ProtectRegionMid, for what it matt I have seen 3 rescues in one region before, and checking the log confirmed that the GOP limit wasn't being broken (it was a ProtectData, a HighValuePrisoner, and a ProtectRegionMid, for what it matters).ers).
Then for all intents and purposes there is no need to switch regions if you can spawn 2 rescue missions in one region. The only reason I switched in 1.2 was because you couldn't get 2 of them in a row, so if you're saying 3 can spawn, then why switch?
Antifringe
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: I'm getting rocked on legendary o.o

Post by Antifringe »

trihero wrote:
I have seen 3 rescues in one region before, and checking the log confirmed that the GOP limit wasn't being broken (it was a ProtectData, a HighValuePrisoner, and a ProtectRegionMid, for what it matt I have seen 3 rescues in one region before, and checking the log confirmed that the GOP limit wasn't being broken (it was a ProtectData, a HighValuePrisoner, and a ProtectRegionMid, for what it matters).ers).
Then for all intents and purposes there is no need to switch regions if you can spawn 2 rescue missions in one region. The only reason I switched in 1.2 was because you couldn't get 2 of them in a row, so if you're saying 3 can spawn, then why switch?
That's not what I am saying. I'm saying that once you have 2 GOP + Liberation, the low hanging fruit are all now gone. It has nothing to do with rescues, which aren't even a type of activity (missions are sorted and spawned by activity, not mission type). You can continue to run intel if you are hoping to catch a Dark Event or a Supply Raid, but for low pop havens, it is almost always better to do a round of recruiting instead, because there isn't anything that can legally spawn anymore that you can realistically detect.
Post Reply