LW2 1.5 Specialist Builds

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Jacke
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LW2 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

I'm planning to use Specialist Officers with some medical perks, supplemented by a 2nd Reaction/Medic Specialist as needed. Two Specialists can do perma Aid Protocol.

And all Specialists will have Field Surgeon. EDIT3: Well, at least 1 of the 2 or 3 Specialists on the squad. Maybe 2 Field Surgeons. :)

Field Surgeon reduces the seriousness of wounds that didn't get to bleeding out and can possibly stack (2nd and later get a roll), reducing soldier recovery times. Medical Protocol (with a carried medkit for 2 charges for the GREMLIN) and later Restoration is the primary source of healing / stabilization, even to the point of forgoing Trojan.

EDIT1: As Noober mentions below, having Field Surgeon is like having another HP of ablative armour. And with later better armours, it gets scales up from just 1 point. And if Field Surgeon fixes all wounds, you even get a Flawless screen. :)

Note that a 2nd Field Surgeon doesn't always stack with the 1st. But if it does, that's great. Though might go with Interference on the 2nd non-officer Specialist. EDIT 4: Nope, Interference isn't worth it. Go for Field Surgeon or Covering Fire.

EDIT2: Aaaaaaaaaannnd after reading artifixer's comment, back to 2 Specialist builds, one Officer, one 2nd React/Medic Specialist. More details below.

For a while, was considering all Specialists Officer and 2nd to go with an OW/Medic build, but decided against it More details below of why I though it might work.

EDIT3: Another tweak to the OW Specialist. Going with Covering Fire. Discussion on Covering Fire from here on.

EDIT4: Playing with Grimy's Moral Mod. Vital to have Revival Protocol. Had 2 recent missions where the Specialist with Revival Protocol got shot and was bleeding out. Longer missions need 2 Specialist with Revival Protocol. Even if that means its on a OW Specialist. 3 builds.... Sigh.

Nope. If 2 Revival Protocol are needed for a long mission, take a 2nd Officer. There needs to be spares and ones for new Squads.


Specialist Officer
Revival Protocol - Field Surgeon - Medical Protocol - Ever Vigilant / Airdrop / Field Medic - Failsafe - Full Override - Restoration

Specialist React/Medic
Sentinel - Covering Fire - Medical Protocol - Ever Vigilant - Cool Under Pressure - Full Override - Restoration


LCpl: Revival Protocol vs Sentinel

Combat Protocol is good for getting rid of robots, but it can be replaced by fire from other troops.

I really like Revival Protocol. And I'm finding I often lose soldiers to Will breaking (I play with Grimy's Moral Mod) or Sectoid's Mindspin. Having Revival Protocol on the Specialist Officer will help to get them back into action faster. Otherwise, I would go with Sentinel for the 2nd Specialist. Especially as it can stop ADVENT yellow-alert attacks.


Cpl: Field Surgeon vs Covering Fire

Interference can be replaced by so many other things: damage, Flashbang, Suppression.

Soldiers will get wounded. Field Surgeon gets them back to health faster and can stack in effect. Having it on the Officer means it's always there. Covering Fire and Interference are interesting, but Field Surgeon is vital. A 2nd Field Surgeon may stack with the 1st, so I'd take it on the 2nd Specialist just for the chance of getting that. Interference is interesting though. Covering Fire is so-so and too situational in my opinion.


Sgt: Medical Protocol vs Trojan

Scanning Protocol is interesting, but soldiers will need healing and stabilizing and enemy robots will need hacking and breaking. There's other ways to scan. Trojan helps hacking, but Medical Protocol saves troops. Even Trojan can often be replaced by just shooting the disabled robot. Medical Protocol is close to a must-pick (along with carrying a medkit to give the GREMLIN 2 charges).


SSgt: Ever Vigilant vs Airdrop vs Field Medic

It would be nice to have Field Medic and add 2 charges to a medkit. But better to have Medical Protocol with a medkit and have those extra 2 charges carried by the GREMLIN. Airdrop is a nice way to get 2 Frag/Plasma Grenades and that could be more important.

But Ever Vigilant gives Specialists a free Overwatch if they just move. A must-pick for an Overwatch Specialist, close to a must-pick for other Specialists. Maybe Airdrop on non-overwatch builds.


TSgt: Failsafe vs Cool Under Pressure

Saviour buffs all healing abilities. But being able to Failsafe hack or improve the aim and crit of reaction shots will be better in the long run. I would go with Failsafe for the Specialist Officer and CUP for the 2nd Overwatch Specialist.


GSgt: Full Override

Whether Control Enemy or Master Enemy, having Full Override is vital against ADVENT robotic masses. Rescue Protocol and Threat Assessment are situational. Situations of masses of enemy MECs is more common. Combine with Redscreen Round shots and Grenadier Bluescreen-Bombs flashbangs.

For Full Override, it's not vital to have Failsafe as failing to hack a MEC isn't as serious as failing to hack a Tower or a Drone while the Squad is still concealed.


MSgt: Restoration

Being able to rally a battered team once per mission could make the difference. There's other ways to do the damage that Kill Zone and Capacitor Discharge would do. Might be interesting to check the other Perks out, but I think Restoration will be more likely to make a difference.
Last edited by Jacke on Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

1. Sentinel
The best anti-yellow alert thing in the game that early. It perfectely scales with weapon tech and rank and become even stronger later on. It's better then RR on ranger because miss on the first shot or LR doesn't affect the second shot at all.
Combat protocol on the other hand is extremely good early on but only 2 uses and it doesn't scale well and become kind of mediocre finisher in late game.

2. Field Surgeon
It basically means +1 abblatives on EVERYONE. Very powerfull. And frankly speaking other perks at this tier is much worse.

3. Trojan or MedProt.
Both are very good and depends heavily on playstyle. I prefer trojan as I always maximize hack on all spec for FO mech farm and try to control any drone I see.

4. EV. Always.
One of the major upgrade to sentinel but even without sentinel it heavily improve the usefullness of specialist in timed mission.
In 1.1-1.2 I always used Airdrop but found out that I rarely use additional plasma grenades on timed mission as there are better alternatives (sting/fire). But I use EV almost every other turn.

5. CuP. Always.
The last cornerstone. Ability to crit from OW as well as +10 aim is the best thing you can get for your Sentinel/EV spec. With +10 aim for OW from officer it can ends up to 80+ to hit chance on most ow shots mid-late game excluding LR enemies.

6. FO.
I know the TA is much better both for your OW spec and ranger but I use mec farm strategy so... FO.
With good PCS (+20 hack) and base hack you can have a 100% control on a Sectopod UNTIL THE END OF THE MISSION (!!!) with just 1 BB and 4 shots with RS round (3 - if lucky with enemy protocol hack reward and no FireWall DE).

7. Retoration.
The most powerfull and unic healing perk in the game.
gimrah
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by gimrah »

Per the overlap with the other thread, my only comment is I find airdrop fairly meh because frag grenades are fairly meh. So it's a decent pick for a non-OW build but I wouldn't consider not taking EV on an OW build. EV makes the soldier useful on fast-moving GOps he was otherwise too slow for. EV also allows a kind of quasi run and gun where you dash into flanking positions - and you have that available every turn.
Phaseless
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Phaseless »

Such a hard choice between Revival and combat protocol IMO.
But I find myself missing combat protocol more on my Revival protocol specs than the other way around.
On the other Hand though, Revival protocol can save lives. You could always walk fire or grenade an almost dead target.

As I said. Such a tough choice.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

Thanks for replying.

As Phaseless said, a lot of difficult choices. However, for Specialists, I'm thinking of going with a single build, for all of them, Officer and otherwise, a hybrid reaction/medic.

Specialist
Sentinel - Field Surgeon - Medical Protocol - Ever Vigilant - Cool Under Pressure - Full Override - Restoration

Always looking for OW to prevent ADVENT flanking and overrunning. Some GREMLIN and Officer actions can be done with the first Action Point and then the second used to set OW. Ever Vigilant means when only moving always on OW after moving. If pushing forward and aggressive flanking threatens further activation, if time allows then falling back into recently cleared ground and catching ADVENT with OW is made better with OW perks. And taking all the critical OW perks together works even better.

Right now I can see at most having no more than 2 Specialists on a squad and more often just 1, the Officer, so I think it would be better to have all Specialists as OW/medic and adapting the team to cover what the skipped perks could have done.

And having all Specialist the same means they're interchangeable.

LCpl: Sentinel
No matter how good situationally Revival Protocol (my original first choice) can be, no matter that Combat Protocol (my current first choice) can be used at squad-sight ranges and does double damage against robots, the power of continually getting out more damage via Sentinel can't be ignored. And neutralizing ADVENT yellow-alert attacks is powerful.

Cpl: Field Surgeon
As Noober said, it's like having +1 ablative armour. Sure you don't get the "FLAWLESS" on the mission summary, but your troops are available for another mission sooner. And with the scaling of the later armour, it can be more than +1 for each Field Surgeon.

Sgt: Medical Protocol
Trojan extends Haywire 1 turn and damages to hacked robots, but so does shooting them, especially with AP Rds or shredding. Scanning Protocol can be replaced with concealed recce or a Battlescanner. Medical Protocol means that a wounded or dying soldier across the battlefield can be treated twice with just a single Action Point and without needing to move.

SSgt: Ever Vigilant
Similar to the skill that makes ADVENT Sentries a priority target. Field Medic gives 2 extra direct medkit charges, but other soldiers can get that from the AWC and taking Medical Protocol means 2 more ranged heals. Air Drop gives 2 Frag Grenades or later Plasma Grenades, which could help extend a Grenadier, but as Noober and gimrah have said, kind of meh and there's often better actions to take. But Ever Vigilant gives a free OW every time the Specialist just moves, which is going to be often.

TSgt: Cool Under Pressure
I remember trihero saying he'd regretted passing up CUP on soldiers. The other perks did what they did, but CUP made OW hit more often and damage more as well as stop yellow-alert attacks. Savior would be nice for stronger heals, but so does the Nanomedkit as well as killing ADVENT before they attack. Failsafe allows for hacking with less risk, but so does boosting the hacking skill through PCS, Redscreen Rds, Bluescreen Bombs, and using hacking when having it fail doesn't matter as much. CUP makes every OW shot better.

GSgt: Full Override
Rescue Protocol can help with more movement for an ally, but it's limited and an Officer's Command is better (and both can't be used on the same soldier in the same turn). Threat Assessment makes Aid Protocol better and could be vital. But the power of stealing a MEC from ADVENT for the battle or longer can be both tactically and strategically better, even if the MECs can be meh. ADVENT becomes weaker in the battle while XCOM becomes stronger. A MEC taking a hit or dying means an XCOM soldier or a resistance fighter didn't.

MSgt: Restoration
A massive heal and stabilize for the whole squad. Twice when there's 2 Specialists and both have it. Kill Zone and Capacitor Discharge can deliver a lot of damage to the enemy. But so can the whole squad by living and fighting longer in the current battle and future ones.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

Jacke wrote:Thanks for replying.

Cpl: Field Surgeon
As Noober said, it's like having +1 ablative armour. Sure you don't get the "FLAWLESS" on the mission summary, but your troops are available for another mission sooner.
You will have a flawless screen.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

Noober wrote:
Jacke wrote:Thanks for replying.

Cpl: Field Surgeon
As Noober said, it's like having +1 ablative armour. Sure you don't get the "FLAWLESS" on the mission summary, but your troops are available for another mission sooner.
You will have a flawless screen.
Whoa. That's so cool! Thanks for mentioning that!
faket15
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by faket15 »

One interesting thing about hack chance that I believe very few people understand is the fact that hacking is one of the few places where the game cares about the ratio between two stats instead of the difference. This means that each point of hack stat increase is worth less than the last one and each point of hack defense reduction is worth more than the last one. It also means that a point of either is usually worth less than you might think (+25 Hack or -25 Hack Defense does NOT give you +25% success chance).

One clear example is trying to Full Override a Sectopod. Assuming your soldier has 150 hack your chance of success will be 37-45%. One hit with Redscreen Rounds brings it up to 43-53%, a second hit gives you 51-63%, a third 64-78%, a fourth 84-100% and a fifth hit always gives you 100% (finally!). If the chances worked in the most obvious way, based on stat difference, your chance to FO a Sectopod without debuffing Hack Defense would be much lower (15-25% in this case), but you would only need 4 hits instead of 5 to get 100% guaranteed.

In general the amount of hits you need is 0 against Drones and T1 Turrets, 0-1 against T2/T3 Turrets and T1 MECs, 1-2 against T2 MECs and 2-3 against T3 MECs. Controlling with Haywire is much harder than with FO (the best case scenario for Haywire actually gives you the same chance as the worst case for FO), but one extra hit with Redscreen Rounds is usually enough to give you 100% here too.

The only other ability XCOM soldiers have access that cares about the ratio between two stats is Psi Operative Insanity, but even this ability still cares about the difference. The first roll, made to see if you hit with the ability, is based on the difference while the second roll, made to decide the effect after you hit, is based on the ratio.
gimrah
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by gimrah »

I think you've made a sound choice to focus on OW/medic specs. They are so strong when they hit TSGT. And don't worry about skipping saviour - nanomedkits are sensibly priced now.

I might consider trojan on one because it's so valuable on those tricky 4 man hacks for negating solo drones and doubling your effective shutdown on MECs.

I would however query whether you want to make them officers still in that case: their strongest action is turn ending, which doesn't mesh well with command on those critical turns. It's not impossible given you won't have covering fire so may not want to OW in a breakdown... until you get EV at least.

I would give serious consideration to shinobis as your usual officers. Even on a bladenobi it works really well even after breaking concealment once you get reaper - kill some things and then command. If you make a shooty/smoky grenadier they work very well as officers since chainshot has a cooldown anyway. I also usually have my RT sniper as my officer for untimed missions: I make him out of that 58 aim guy who decided to be a sharp for some reason.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

Can confirm that shinobis are by far the best officers now.
OW spec. could be an option IF you pick TA instead of FO on them due to defence prot himself + comand.
Combat protocl specs were very good officers due to defence prot + comand but they are not common now.
Techincs are another option to consider.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

gimrah, I'm playing with Commander's Choice, so between it and the GTS every Rookie ends up being exactly the class I think is best. That 58 aim Rookie is going to be a Grenadier or Flamer Technical (just watch out for his rocket :) ).

Noober, I welcome you supporting your claim that Shinobis are the best officers. That's a interesting idea getting Threat Assessment and the Specialist using Aid Protocol on himself. But what if another solider has a greater need for Aid Protocol? And I think Full Override is one of the Specialsit's must-have perks. Don't understand why any officer has to have perks to "defence prot himself + comand".

I picked Specialist Officers because you almost always want a Specialist to hack as well as provide medic perks like Field Surgeon. This way I get all 3 from one soldier as well as Overwatch Specialist as a bonus 4th for my build. As well, the Specialist will likely find it easier to keep most of the squad in command range as almost all of their perks work at range (short range on use of the medkit), some of the GREMLIN ones at squadsight range.

I think Shinobi officers might have a hard time keeping the squad in command range. I'll make at least one (with Oscar Mike) just to test it out. Likewise I'll make a Sharpshooter Training Officer with Trial By Fire and Lead By Example. But with the Shinobi scouting before breaking concealment and after wanting long runs to build damage on Fleche (Reaper is going to be the exception), I think keeping the squad in command is going to be tough.

Like all soldiers, a Specialist has more perks to use than is possible in 2 Action Points. Can use both on separate GREMLIN actions (only some are turn ending) or movement or many other actions, including an Action spent shooting or setting up overwatch. In fact, has to spend an Action Point before Ever Vigilant or when Actions aren't just movement). It's always a tradeoff to pick the best that needs to be done right now. Officers just adds more perks to the pool to choose which are the best to use.

And with at most 12 soldiers in the squad and more often 5 or 6, any Soldier Class Officer need to attack just like everyone else. So it's either an action point on direct fire or one on overwatch. With a Specialist with Sentinel, Ever Vigilant, and eventually Cool Under Pressure, that one action as overwatch gets two possible shots.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

Shoniby is in the stealth for most of the mission so he can't do anything offensive/supporting without loosing the concealment.
BUT
Command and all other officer abilities (focus fire/incoming/+ 5 speed/etc.) doesn't break concealment (!) and it's the strongest thing it can do to support the team (!!).
Bad activation? Command your grenadier to launch 2 fire grenades + sting and suddenly everything is not that bad as it seemed before. Or give +5 speed to your assault/ranger and then - command and boom - 2 less ayys on the map.
And your shinobi is still invisible!
He can command up to 4 times at max officer rank staying invisible for scouting and perfect ambush later on for monstrous ammount of dmg with Reaper+HnR+RF - all in one turn.

So... shinobis are ALWAWS go to the tube for officer training.
So... you need up to 6 of them due to two of them will always be in the tube training their officer abilities.
Icarus
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Icarus »

@Noober:

Wouldn't a concealed holo officer make more sense with that? He can command just as fine, but also holo, which doesn't break concealment either. On top of it, he can help the team indirectly via Lead By Example, due to his way higher aim stat.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

Shinoby could and will do a lot of damage every mission from the very beginig till the very end (more so at the end). So he utilize early rounds where he have to stay in shadow to command/oscar mike/focus fire. And in the second half of mission he become a major dps.

Holo officer couldl not be even remotely close to shinoby in terms of damage and reliability and thus always stays as a support even if you desperetily need damage. And even +15 aim/crit against MK3 in high cover is not worth damage burst of Reaper+HnR+RF or just reaper+fire grenade that M2Muton/snake shinoby can and will do after TSGT (IMO).
Icarus
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Icarus »

Sure. But I didn't mean not to take a shinobi. I meant not taking shinobi as a spotter. Use holo as spotter, take shinobi anyway. That way I can get my sweet bladenobi DPS all the time and don't have to uncloak my spotter for it. I'd need to make room for it of course, but I think a holo might have enough to contribute when the going gets tough to justify not uncloaking him.

And remember, if you are in a tight spot, you usually need the shinobi and thus can't use its command ability, except at the end of a reaper chain where I usually use that last action to shoot or pull back. So you want Command for tight spots, but you also want sword mayhem in tight spots. I used shinobis as spotters until now and found they couldn't use their Command because I needed them for other stuff.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

It really depends on the playtyle.
I don't use low aim sharps at all and all of my 4 sharps are dfa-crit-kubikiry specced. Even after nerf to dfa it still seems strong enough to me to trade it for holo-spec. May be snapshot is a good alternative in timed mission but I don't consider sniper at all for those missions. Though I'm not that late in the current campaign to be absolutely sure.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

Noober wrote:Shoniby is in the stealth for most of the mission so he can't do anything offensive/supporting without loosing the concealment.
BUT
Command and all other officer abilities (focus fire/incoming/+ 5 speed/etc.) doesn't break concealment (!) and it's the strongest thing it can do to support the team (!!).
I think any soldier class can be made to work as an Officer. But some have conflicts when doing so.

The Shinobi is also the scout. And the Shinobi goes into close combat and can easily get swarmed, forced to act defensively and ignore the squad. Or even taken out temporarily or permanently.

Looking at XComLW_OfficerPack.ini, here's the Command Range in tiles.

Code: Select all

 8.1  2Lt
 9.1  Lt
10.1  Capt
11.1  Maj
12.1  LCol
13.1  Col
14.1  Fd Cmdr
Depending on how it calculates, those values may be greater by 1.0. You can call up the display for Command Range: shows as a green cylinder at the range.

For a reference, normal sighting of non-concealed enemy is 27 tiles. So the max Command Range is a bit more than half sighting range.

Those values are kind of tight, especially at the lower officer ranks.

I've yet to get my first officer trained in my 1.5 game. (Just got into April, just built the GTS, had my first 2Lt cooking--then had to pull him for a GOps.) Noober, if you get the chance, maneuver on the battlefield and call up the Command Range display and let us know about it.
artifixer
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by artifixer »

First of all, I'd like to say, that specialists are great officers. I don't train other classes for officers in my current campaign and happy with that decision. What you should keep in mind though, is that officer speci just won't have enough actions for something beyond aids, hacks, commands and ocasional heals/moves, so everything overwach-related just useless for them most of the time, except maybe first engage and reinforcement ambushes.

So, in my oppinion, there are two viable builds for specialists.

Officer or just main spec: Combat Protocol/Revival Protocol - Field Surgeon - Medical Protocol - Airdrop - Failsafe - Full Override - Restoration/Capacitor Discharge. There are healing or dmg related options on first and last ranks, chose them as you seem fit for a squad, but it's usually a good idea to mix them, so you have ways to both deal garanteed damage and revive someone if things went wrong. There should be one specialist of this type on every mission. You can easily make those guys from low aim low mobility soldiers as they don't need to shoot or flank really.

OW or additional spec. I only bring those as second specialist in the squad and honestly don't think they are very effective choice, unless you facing lots of robotic enemies or rely heavily on "single visible tank with Aid Protocol every turn" tactics. Build them like that: Sentinel - Covering Fire - Medical Protocol/Trojan - Ever Vigilant/Airdrop - Cool Under Pressure - Full Override - Kill Zone/Restoration. Good aim stat needed for a soldier to be effective, when built that way.

Per-Rank choices.

LCpl: Combat Protocol is a default choice for me. Consider Sentinel only if you do not plan to use solder as officer, perhaps use him only as as second Specialist even. Revival Protocol usually just not worth it.

Cpl: Field Surgeon is absolute must for first Specialist in the squad. But if you intend to use him as a second one, you may consider Covering Fire, because two Field Surgeons don't always stack (chance-based).

Sgt: Medical Protocol will save you when shit hits a fan, so you need at least one guy with it, maybe even both.

SSgt: Airdrop is just great. If you already have one, maybe consider Ever Vigilant

TSgt: Savior is not worth it, except maybe for final mission. Cool Under Pressure is good only if you go OW path already (if you do - take it!). For a commanding specialist, as I said, there won't be many opportunities to go Overwach, so it's generaly better to take Failsafe.

GSgt: Full Override is just too strong to miss.

MSgt: Restoration is a great choice for main specialist. If you feel really confident, you can go for Capacitor Discharge though, as it can help you with some imminent dmg and occasional stuns, but it's much less safe, even if you follow tactics "killed enemies can't cause harm". For second specialist with OW perks Kill Zone can be very strong choice, definitely something to consider.
Last edited by artifixer on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Noober
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Noober »

Don't worry - the command range is usually enough except for the situation where shioby scouts faaar away to spot ayys for sharps in the nest. Very common in all timelerless missions like HQ/raid/column/UFO.
It's the LOS requirement that cause the most troubles for commmand.
You want to command this particular unit and of cause your officer don't have LOS onn him.... damn...
Phaseless
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Phaseless »

Most of my officers are Specials, because it just blends nicely with their Support role.
I also Train some shinobis as officers for mini squad Guerilla OPs, because the Person getting spotted while doing the objective can get a command from the concealed shinobi, which means the shinobi is very likely to not be shot at while a specialist might not have a very good Position and receive fire. Also shinobis in General can issue commands while being conealed, which is a big plus.

I also have one or two sharpshooter officers for mini assassinations, so in case the scouting shinobi gets spotted, the sniper can help him get out of Harm's way.

And some Grenadiers are officers as reserves in case all other viable officers are already active or wounded.
TrainInVain
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by TrainInVain »

I happily use mix of shinobi and specialist officers. I try to keep someone training at all times and make use of quick study where possible. Sometimes it happens I can't spare 1 class or the other to train due to wounds etc, and can usually keep the training going that way.

Didn't have much luck with capacitor discharge and take restoration on both OW and hacking specialists.
gimrah
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by gimrah »

Icarus wrote:@Noober:

Wouldn't a concealed holo officer make more sense with that? He can command just as fine, but also holo, which doesn't break concealment either. On top of it, he can help the team indirectly via Lead By Example, due to his way higher aim stat.
I've tried this but it doesn't work well. A sharp is too slow and has too high detection radius without an SMG to be good as a scout, unless he gets ghostwalker and/or covert in AWC and you give him a speed PCS. If you do roll all of those things, do go for it. That sharp will still underperform vs a shinobi in smaller GOps because the shinobi can provide great burst damage in the second half of a GOp once the risk of further activations is reduced. But on long missions the holobot sharp is stronger because it is more powerful while concealed.

The big problem with holobot sharps is getting them ranked up. They don't get any kills at all really, whereas shinobis get a lot even if they stay concealed for the first half of the mission. And you want your long mission officer to be a high rank officer ideally.

I have 3 sharps in this campaign. One is a straight rightside build from a high mobility soldier, who also has pistol skills - very versatile but glass cannon. The other two work as a pair in big missions. One fairly classic DfA build and one RT hybrid spec. I think it is useful to have RT available in a big mission because you have a lot of soldiers to benefit from the aim bonuses he can lay down (best thing about RT is it makes holo non turn-ending). You can also build it around crit so he can pick up kubi and be a boss killer: RT while steadied and then kubi with a near 100% to crit even non-exposed target.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

Thanks for all the great thoughts, dudes. Lots of good details to remember, like use of soldiers with Quick Study and making spare officers for when the primary ones are wounded or training.
artifixer wrote:First of all, I'd like to say, that specialists are great officers. I don't train other classes for officers in my current campaign and happy with that decision. What you should keep in mind though, is that officer speci just won't have enough actions for something beyond aids, hacks, commands and ocasional heals/moves, so everything overwach-related just useless for them most of the time, except maybe first engage and reinforcement ambushes.
Damn, here I was hoping to get by on one Specialist build. Will have to think about going back to 2, one Specialist Officer, one OW/Medic.

With me running Grimy's Moral Mod, having had several soldiers already break or get mind-spun by the Sectoids, and already in April sending out my first troop with less-than-max Willpower, I'll have to think about having the Specialist Officer take Revival Protocol.

Noober wrote:It's the LOS requirement that cause the most troubles for commmand.
You want to command this particular unit and of cause your officer don't have LOS onn him.... damn...
Thanks for reminding me about needing LOS for Command. Got to be careful that way.

Phaseless wrote:[ For officers, uses Specialists, Shinobi, one or two Sharpshooters, and some Grenadiers. ]

I also have one or two sharpshooter officers for mini assassinations, so in case the scouting shinobi gets spotted, the sniper can help him get out of Harm's way.
Even before training spare officers, was planning on some Shinobi and Sharpshooter officers. I also like Technical Officers for Haven duty, with maybe 2Lt or Lt at most.

And can Sharpshooter officers command at squad sight ranges ?!?
gimrah
Long War 2 Crew
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by gimrah »

Sharps cannot command at squadsight. But I usually keep my sharps close enough to the squad that it's ok. Similarly I don't like to have my shinobi that far from the squad - one accident with concealment and he dies without support.

Psi make great officers too but come a bit late to be your main officers. Also you want to have tbf officers to help them rank up in the first place.

I've tried various classes and shinobis work best overall. Smoky shooty grenadier also good if you like that build. I haven't tried technicals - I agree that could be an interesting choice.
Jacke
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Re: LW 1.5 Specialist Builds

Post by Jacke »

Aaaaaaaaaannnd after reading artifixer's comment above, going back to 2 Specialist builds, one Officer, one 2nd React/Medic Specialist.


Specialist Officer
Revival Protocol - Field Surgeon - Medical Protocol - Ever Vigilant / Field Medic / Airdrop - Failsafe - Full Override - Restoration

Specialist React/Medic
Sentinel - Field Surgeon / Interference - Medical Protocol - Ever Vigilant - Cool Under Pressure - Full Override - Restoration


With the amount of disabled soldiers I'm getting from Will breaking (I play with Grimy's Moral Mod) and Sectoid's Mindspin, I'm going with Revival Protocol on the Specialist Officer to get soldiers back into the fight. Especially those unconscious ones who would be otherwise have to be carried out of battle and thus neutralise 2 squad members. Combat Protocol is good, but can be replaced with regular damage shots, especially with AP Rds or other special ammo.

Still would likely go with double Field Surgeons, even if sometimes it doesn't stack. Might go with Interference on the 2nd Specialist just to be able to easily take out ADVENT overwatch.

Medical Protocol for both.

Ever Vigilant on the 2nd Specialist. Maybe also on the Specialist Officer. He's not an OW build but having that perk might be better than 2 extra shots of the medkit or 2 Frag/Plasma Grenades. Still mulling that one over.

Failsafe for the Officer. CUP for the OW.

And for both Full Override and Restoration. Though for the MSgt perk, Kill Zone and Capacitor Discharge might be worth a look on the 2nd Specialist.
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