Damage calculation bug?

[trihero]

I had a Ranger with center mass and a coil gun and AP rounds, so my minimum damage is 7 according to the display. Then I shot at a 4 armor sectopod, and I did 6 damage. This shouldn't be possible since AP rounds pierces all armor, right? My guess is maybe the coil gun's 1 armor piercing overrides AP rounds somehow?

Then in a further test, I had a ranger cast Rupture on an Elite Officer. The readout said my crit damage is +6. The min damage of the coil gun is 6 +1 with center mass, yet the elite officer took 11 damage from my rupture shot. This is again with coil gun + ap rounds (elite officer had no armor though...so this makes even less sense).

I set my graze band to 0 and elite officer/sectopod have no dodge points, so I don't think it's possible that my results come from "grazing" or "downgraded" damage, it's weird.

Weird saw this again; hit a viper serpens for 6 damage (nongrazing) with my center mass + coil gun which results in 7 min damage. This time I even had stiletto rounds on (+2 vs organic) so there's no way I could do 6 to this.

I suspect some interaction between coil gun and ammo??

[moroniccinamun]

I can't answer you question definitively, but I recall reading that the AP rounds do not penetrate all armor, just a fixed amount, and they are fixing the description in the next update.

As far as I can tell you with the crit damage thing, I don't seem to recall being able to see such stats in game, so I'm guessing you have another mod, i.e. perfect information? It's pretty much confirmed that PI is pretty wonky with LW2

[trihero]

I do have perfect information which is where it shows stuff like crit damage +x. I am beginning to believe it's inaccurate at times with LW2; for instance I feel like I miss more 95% shots than I really should be (but that sort of thing is very hard to tell without a large sample size).

However, the events I reported are still extremely puzzling. Even if AP rounds only pierces 3 armor, recall the coil gun has innate 1 piercing so total should be 4 piercing so the 4 armor sectopod should effectively have no armor. And coil rifle's min is 6 damage for sure, and I had center mass for +1, so it should be impossible to hit for 6 damage unless the piercing is less than I think.

And it really doesn't explain the 6 damage hit against a Viper; I had stiletto rounds for +2 damage and again with center mass and coil rifle min 6 damage, how can that do 6 damage (nongrazing) against a Viper?

[moroniccinamun]

Yea I'm afraid I can't help you with that then, other than perfect information for sure is not accurate.
I know it doesn't help you, but for sure the system is different than vanilla in ways I'm still figuring out (you'd think this would be written somewhere...)

[profDEADPOOL]

Yea I'm afraid I can't help you with that then, other than perfect information for sure is not accurate.
I know it doesn't help you, but for sure the system is different than vanilla in ways I'm still figuring out (you'd think this would be written somewhere...)

What parts of Perfect Information aren't accurate?

[trihero]

I think there's something deeper going on here than just coil weapons. Recently I had another inexplicable damage calculation:

gunner with beam cannon (10-16 damage), +1 from central mass, with stiletto rounds +2 to organic, I shot a sectoid commander for 11 damage. That is impossible. My minimum should be 13. It wasn't a graze. And my graze band is 0. Sectoid commanders don't have dodge and there were no other debuffs going on.

[Zyrrashijn]

Is it possible that some weapon types don't work with specialized ammo? Lasers and Beams come to mind. I'm nowhere near to test, but i remember such from the first Longwar.

[mattprice516]

AP rounds penetrate 2 armor, and that stacks with Coil's 1 penetration.

The damage preview and popups for armor piercing (and the display) has had some wonky behavior - if you shoot a dude with 4 armor and you have 3 pierce, "4 armor" will always pop up on the damage result for example. In our testing though we've always found that it's just cosmetic, and that the calculation does take the correct pierce into account. As far as we can tell anyway.

[mattprice516]

A few other observations:

Crit damage from Coil rifle should be 4 unless you have special perks (did you?).

One of the +2 damage ammo works on advent only, the other works on aliens only. I don't recall exactly which but you might check because stiletto could be the advent only one which would mean you wouldn't benefit from it against snakes and the like.

All that taken into account (and AP piercing 2) most of the cases you mentioned look possible at least. If you can catch one that should be impossible even with all of the above info though, a save could be helpful.

[trihero]

One of the +2 damage ammo works on advent only, the other works on aliens only. I don't recall exactly which but you might check because stiletto could be the advent only one which would mean you wouldn't benefit from it against snakes and the like.

Stiletto is +2 to nonrobotics, needle is +2 to advent soldiers. I had stilletto on, shooting against sectoid commanders and vipers, and getting impossible minimum damage with the beam canon (10-16, then +1 from central mass, +2 from stiletto is minimum 13, but I got 11 damage against sectoid commander sometimes nongrazing). I'm afraid I don't have any save files that can demonstrate these.

[dodger]

I've definitely seen moments where I did not get graze message but did less than minimum damage a few times. These were much earlier in the game than you all are discussing with a lot less armor/ammo specifics involved. I'll keep an eye out for it and try to get some sample saves.