The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

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Zyxpsilon
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Zyxpsilon »

Been seeing that stuff referenced just about everywhere compatibility hurdles are at some greater risks to show up.

With LW2, this "Steamish" situation is even more frequent. The well known trick to clear Config files/Folder is very popular but i feel specific Load-Order fiddling would probably solve a good chunk of these mysterious problems.

YET -- there's no obvious ways to actually inflict whatever preferable Loading slots in anyone's Mods List. Up/Down.. wherever! :(

I've read about that the Subscribing & Re-Subscribing trick has a particular effect on how Steam handles the obnoxious cycle. Still no way to tell **WHERE** in the loop such various attempts push or pull anything & if they are exactly where they should... before or after that special MOD that interferes with "settings" either way.

Soooooo -- can anyone please explain the exact facts here for me?
Sentenryu
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:24 pm

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Sentenryu »

I'm not even going to pretend I know anything about this black magic. What I do know is that the alternate launcher reorders the lines on a ini file (I think it's XComModOptions? the property name is ActiveMods) I've no idea if that actualy has something to do with the load order.
Zyxpsilon
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Zyxpsilon »

Yep.. i'm aware of that "Alternate Launcher" solution and even tried it -- but it simply isn't enough since we still don't have precise control over the preferable exact Load-Order to at least hook the "##..\XCom2\XComGame\Mods.." local files while the usual Steam stack is also streamed.

Local Mods are listed in the XComModOptions.INI file as some trailer entries (even into the Steam Launcher, btw), BUT they aren't loaded last at all since even my own mods can't be activated after LW2 to apply strict INT factors to rewrite specific strings @runtime via the qUIck_LW2 mod.

So that's why i'm curious about that "Load-Order" system. Amineri @Pavonis told me awhile ago that Firaxis hasn't given us proper ways to directly fiddle with such stuff in/from native code or UC scripting functions... but, some Modders have a knack to mention this mysterious Load-Order trick without revealing the truth of what & how IT does the magic i'm seeking for to solve a problem.

I can tackle most of my Modding projects/content logically.. yet, without valid & proven facts (aside from pre-parsed Subscribing dates and other issues handled but still obfuscated by Steam) i'm just stuck.
Sentenryu
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:24 pm

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Sentenryu »

BUT they aren't loaded last at all since even my own mods can't be activated after LW2
Seens like you're stuck on the same hole I was a while back. I just ended up copy pasting edited files over the mod ones.

We aren't the only ones with issues on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/xcom2mods/comm ... dding_lw2/

Did you try publishing your mod as a hidden file on steam and subscribing to it? I think local mods are actualy loaded before workshop ones as a result of the DLC loading.
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S-Flo
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Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by S-Flo »

There's no good way to handle it outside of using tricks based off the loading behavior, AFAIK. The Alternative Mod Launcher can set load order, but that's completely in the control of the end user. As to how it actually loads things, I've figured out the basics from a combination of reading older forum topics and some trial-and-error.

Here's what I've figured: XCOM 2 first loads all local non-Workshop mods in alphabetical order based off the name of the folder it's contained in. After that, it loads all the Workshop mods based off the order you subscribed to them in.

If you keep all your mods locally, then name the folder of the one you want to load last something like "zzzMyModName". If you're doing something like debugging a LW2 meta-mod through ModBuddy and your copy of LW2 is from the Workshop, then you'll want to either use the AML to specify load order or publish a private developer-only version of the mod for testing and subscribe to it.
lilyophelia
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:13 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by lilyophelia »

I know that Gnar somehow got this to work for his aim angles mod.

I really have no clue how to make changes to the LW files without directly editing the ini files. My own mods just will not stick for some reason.

Might need to upload the files to the workshop to get them to work properly.

Another weird issue is that renaming the Long War mod folder seems to break things also. I lose icon images for grenades if I do.
Zyxpsilon
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Zyxpsilon »

Thanks all for reporting your own experiences with this strange issue.

But... to me, the essential stands on the fact that when i create anything (so far, i've released at least 8 spanning from complex HUD assets, gameplay gimmicks & tools!) from ModBuddy i rely on two very simple principles.

1) I only keep ONE copy of my on-going projects and their auto-located/compiled valid (for ingame use) version that goes into the XC2-game folder (referenced earlier) instead of any locally maintained Steam-Workshop destinations. Thus while i don't HAVE to subscribe to it.. it still can happen that verifying if some changes do stick is just impossible. Simply don't want to double-up tasks -- so to speak. I understand some "hidden" version could help verifying if load-order (highly variable by nature) is actually effective or working as intended & necessary.

2) Once released.. these Mods are then "pre-supposed" to work on any of subscribers' setup. Barring for the fact that there's no way to tell if people got my custom stuff **AFTER** installing or more importantly, getting a new update of LW2 ... a fairly stable solution is to quickly release new updates myself as soon as LW2 uploads their own version. As a result, the official status of both can only be in the correct Load-Order since the Steam Time-scaling parser is in fact reliable enough. It just doesn't require any external intervention unless the Load-Order collapses somehow. AML might seem like a good idea to gain some form of controls over extensive Mod lists (like grouping, tracking, switching Load-Order indirectly, etc) but why introduce further risks when the authentic Firaxis systems are & have been reliably effective ever since XCom2 release?

IF only some Firaxis devs (or Pavonis staff) would just chime in with the official truths about this L/O weirdness.. then i could start hoping to devise or find a proper solution to this absurb nightmare of compatibility hurdles. :?
Sentenryu
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:24 pm

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Sentenryu »

Mod Updates don't affect load order, only the subscribe action by clicking on the green subscribe button on the mod page.

Seens we got confirmation that local mods can't override steam mods, so it looks like I'll need to make a private workshop mod for my needs. :cry:
lilyophelia
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:13 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by lilyophelia »

Sentenryu wrote:Seens we got confirmation that local mods can't override steam mods, so it looks like I'll need to make a private workshop mod for my needs. :cry:
I think this a really good guess as to what's going on.

If your private workshop mod does work, please let us know!
Zyxpsilon
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:26 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by Zyxpsilon »

Oh.. but the local (Private) mod (qUIck_LW2) works fine simply because i am copy/pasting its four custom INT files straight over the LW2 defaults in their own installed localization folder(s) --- ON my PC.

But Amineri confirmed these edits should be activated correctly by my subscribers once D/L'ed from the usual Workshop slot. As long as the directory structure is respected the files are properly handled.
Although -- again the silly LOAD/ORDER scrambles can still screw up the fact that anything trying to affect LW2 **must** be loaded after that core Mod. By updating whatever other external mods including LW2 versions, this verifying (Steamish) cycle is just broken up as soon as they are used asynchronously or reside in some undesirable LoadOut slots.
boy_cad
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:04 am

Re: The infamously UN-Explained Load-Order tricks.

Post by boy_cad »

S-Flo wrote:If you keep all your mods locally, then name the folder of the one you want to load last something like "zzzMyModName". If you're doing something like debugging a LW2 meta-mod through ModBuddy and your copy of LW2 is from the Workshop, then you'll want to either use the AML to specify load order or publish a private developer-only version...
...Helpful. But this raises many questions about managing a load order. For instance, I use Nexus Mod Manager. Is there any way to get information about mod conflicts in large load orders without using the Alternative/Community Mod Launcher?
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