Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Forum to support developing of community project to update Long War 2 to work with the War of the Chosen expansion.
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The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:52 pm

This is probably a moot point to bring up this late in proceedings, but for those of us who don't have Discord or a stable enough internet connection to make it worthwhile, a thread is probably a good idea.

Actually, I'm kind of surprised this wasn't one of the first threads made.

Regardless, any thoughts on how the Factions could be improved for LWotC?

Maybe actually having a restriction of one faction hero per mission to reflect the tension between the factions?

Thoughts on skill tree additions?

The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:31 am

These probably go without saying and I probably should've included these in the OP but there are some obvious things that could be done:

Give the Templars access to the Pistol talents as a third row\column.

Remove charges on the Reapers Sting and Banish and the Skirmishers various abilities in favour of cooldowns.

Adjust the Bullpup's range to that of an Assault Rifle rather than a Shotgun. The latter would make it basically worthless in Long War given the huge range penalties Shotguns take.

There are other mods that address the Bullpup and the Reapers and Skirmishers abilities but folding them into LWotC strikes me as a good idea.

The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:38 am

I get the distinct impression this thread is either going to be seen as spam or that people are going to assume I really like the sound of my own voice but I'm going to keep trying to start a conversation at least.

So. Skirmishers.

How do you fix the overlap with Long War's Rangers?

cryptc
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by cryptc » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:48 pm

I think what I'd like would be making the factions more like specialized versions of existing classes (getting to be too many classes if there's 8 plus 3 factions on top of that). Just have their special stuff like claymore and grapple being unique to them, and have other non-unique style powers moved to be standard (like having Reaper concealment being the standard for Shinobi as well).

But I assume the LWotC team will mostly focus on making everything work, not completely rework all the classes... guess we'll see...

The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:23 pm

Considering how hilariously OP the Reapers' Shadow concealment is, I really hope that's not what winds up happening.

My thoughts on how to change the Skirmisher revolve around action economy, giving them access to Close Encounters or just straight up a third action.

Otherwise, they're a lot like Long War Rangers that happen to have an innate grapple and a few Melee abilities. OP by vanilla standards but a bit too much overlap with Rangers. The major gimmick of always being able to take two actions isn't quite as unique when you factor in Light 'Em Up being a skill available via the Training Grounds\AWC.

Reapers play so differently to other stealth-based classes that they really don't need changing. Maybe give them access to Precision Shot, Double Tap or some other sniper-related perks but otherwise, they'd be fine pretty much out of the box in Long War.

As to the Templars, they're weird.

Default change I'd make to them is give them access to the AWC pistol abilities, alongside what they already have, then restructure their other trees to be for Psionics\Defensive abilities like Parry and then the third tree being all about their blade attacks: Give them access to Combatives, Cutthroat, even Bladestorm or Reaper as top-tier options.

It's difficult to use a Templar effectively without getting them wounded, so having perks that encourage a risk\reward play style makes sense to me. Especially since Shinobis seem to have a severe case of glass jaw.

evan466
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by evan466 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:01 am

Honestly love how OP the faction forces can be when used correctly. A Reaper on a enemy VIP mission inside a city is just so easy and fun to take advantage of. Ignoring for a moment that the VIP usually starts near a car that you can just immediately blow up, you have entire squads walking around waiting to be killed by the IED skill. Then you run around picking off anyone else while ever breaking concealment. The game has plenty of parts that will kick your ass. It's nice to feel a little OP occasionally. I would be disappointed if they decided to nerf the factions forces significantly.

The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:04 am

I actually nutted up and made a Discord account last night and was talking with the team about various items and nerfing the hero classes appears to be the last thing on their minds.

They have a channel dedicated to suggestions there so if anyone has any ideas, going and saying hi there is probably a good idea.

evan466
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by evan466 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:31 pm

I've dropped by a few times but it seems a little overrun with weird anime things so I've kept my distance.

prko
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:08 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by prko » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:22 pm

I've just registered as I was thinking a lot about WotC and Long War 2 during my break from work. I do have a few ideas around, but since I haven't ever before tried to mod XCOM2, none of this may even be possible. Regardless, the ideas are rather wild, so not only could they be difficult or impossible to implement, they may not even be interesting to people other than myself :)

Faction Heroes...

Worth a short intro. I loved them at first, I dislike them now. I am attempting to make my own custom soldier classes and these don't seem to fit at all into the XCOM theme for me. They're flashy, they're "cool" toys, but I would expect something more serious from a faction system.

In relation to Long War 2, I don't see them fitting too much as well. The 8 base classes are decent enough and don't need much support, especially if you throw in officer training and AWC training on top. Provided they could be disabled so that they are not obtainable through covert ops (should be easy enough to throw that mission type away) nor would you begin the game with one (random) faction hero, they could be used as NPCs on special mission types. Basically, on a certain mission type that relates to each faction narrative, you would begin with your chosen squad of soldiers plus an additional hero class NPC that you can control as if they were your own. The objectives could be loosely related to faction themes (stealth-type or NPC hunt missions for the Reapers, etc.). Alternatively, they could simply appear on missions (in the same manner as described above) whenever their enemy Chosen is present. Assuming the Chosen would actually be powerful for a change, this could counter-balance that additional enemy strength.

As for the strategic layer, the factions could offer occasional resources as "gifts" for doing missions for them or even sabotage the progress of their related Chosen in making XCOM's life harder.

A complete alternative, also somewhat fitting for LW2, is to make factions offer XCOM a potential recruit each month, but each recruit would have a random ability set from a certain pool to make each one unique in some way, to contrast that all non-faction soldiers have fixed ability sets, making it different enough that it's worth including.

Phew.

The13Inquisitor
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Suggestions\Discussion: Faction Heroes

Post by The13Inquisitor » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:51 am

@prko

Hey, just a heads up but if you've got suggestions, the best place for them would be the LWotC Discord server.

There's a link in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27179

Don't be shy to say hello and give your input.

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