DFA vs. Rapid Targeting

[Saph7]

There is a niche for a holo scout, but you need quite a lot of other soldiers to make them worthwhile. I think you need at least a squad size of 7 before it becomes worth it (and I'd only do it on untimed missions).

They're pretty fun when they work though. Multitargeting an enemy 8-pod and following up with a Saturation Fire from the gunner makes for an effective opener.

[nightwyrm]

I'm think a RT Sharp is used more like an off-scout that can still help the squad while concealed rather than an actual sniper.

I have a hard time seeing room in any combat team for that. The more firepower you bring, the faster enemies die, the less likely you're going to get shot, or have added patrols. Killing as quickly and efficiently as possible provides safety. How often does a holotarget scout provide more damage (via +aim/crit/vpt), compared to say another gunner or assault?

The comparison should be to a Shinobi coz you're gonna want at least one dude with phantom as a scout.

[Goumindong]

I'm think a RT Sharp is used more like an off-scout that can still help the squad while concealed rather than an actual sniper.

I have a hard time seeing room in any combat team for that. The more firepower you bring, the faster enemies die, the less likely you're going to get shot, or have added patrols. Killing as quickly and efficiently as possible provides safety. How often does a holotarget scout provide more damage (via +aim/crit/vpt), compared to say another gunner or assault?

The comparison should be to a Shinobi coz you're gonna want at least one dude with phantom as a scout.

No, you're not. The shinobi can't prevent units from patrolling into you so more options to deal with the units that do is going to be more valuable than not.

[stefan3iii]

I'm think a RT Sharp is used more like an off-scout that can still help the squad while concealed rather than an actual sniper.

I have a hard time seeing room in any combat team for that. The more firepower you bring, the faster enemies die, the less likely you're going to get shot, or have added patrols. Killing as quickly and efficiently as possible provides safety. How often does a holotarget scout provide more damage (via +aim/crit/vpt), compared to say another gunner or assault?

The comparison should be to a Shinobi coz you're gonna want at least one dude with phantom as a scout.

I can see that, I do build combat shinobis focused on using pistols, hunter's axe, reaper, and an EXO suit. I save them as a last resort, as they can put out an immense amount of damage in single turn when needed (ex. hunter's axe from stealth for big crit, lightning hands, fan fire, restealth, then faceoff or shredder). But that takes a lot longer to train up, and is more of a mid to late game thing.

[trihero]

Why are people saying that Rapid Targeting only helps you once every 4-5 rounds? It helps every round because it makes holo a non-turn-ending action, even while the "free" holo action is on cooldown.

So you can ALWAYS holo/holo, or holo/command, or holo/smoke grenade, or holo/steady.

SS not shooting is a huge loss of dps, which is rarely made up for by holoing. Have you thought about what are you giving up in order to holo target every turn?

You can make up fringe cases like holo into command someone to rapid fire again, but usually taking your 100% sharpshooter shot is better than giving +10% on someone else's shot. If you spec holotargeter, your 100% shots become more like 60% shots on average (since you're missing steady weapon, DGG, and getting squad sight penalties).

Also a bit of common sense - the best "holo-targeting" is called cover removal - it gives +45% to hit and +40% to crit. Make sure your team has that first. Yes, some enemies can't be flanked and holo-targeting would be nice, but in those scenarios still don't forget to consider the comparison scenario of sharpshooter DFA hitting them super hard.

[marceror]

The thing I really like about DFA is using it with a stock. Shoot, Kill, Steady. Rinse and repeat until the battlefield is quiet.

[gimrah]

Has anyone had success with a snapshot build? It struck me they'd be good on guerrilla ops if 1.3 rebalance to small squads is successful and would therefore be easier to level than other builds.

I was thinking snapshot, DGG, hunters instinct, low profile, serial and be a glass cannon.

[Sir_Dr_D]

DFA does seem to be the superior choice. Both snap shot and rapid targeting pale by comparison.

But what would be interesting though is if snap shot and rapid targeting could be in the same build. Then a sniper could holo target and then shoot. Or move and shoot. Or holo twice.

And the pistol perks should really be on the sniper. They don't make sense on anyone else. (So a person with quick draw could put down their main weapon, shoot with their pistol, and then shoot with their main weapon? But they cannot just shoot with their main weapon twice? Isn't that easier? It only makes sense on the sniper, who wouldn't be able to shoot with their main weapon.)

So the following would make for more interesting sniper build choices:
- Have rapid target be a squaddie perk. (really holo targeting is useless without it.)
- Then for your first three lance corporal picks have:
- Death From Above
- Snap Shot
- Quickdraw

And remove the pistol perks from the AWC. Replace them with skills that every insurgent soldier actually needs, mainly the stealth skills. It would make the game more interesting, as we wouldn't be reliant on the Shonobi. We could make any soldier into a stealth soldier. It fits the theme. As really all the soldiers need to be somewhat stealthy.

[darkerevent]

I have a hard time seeing room in any combat team for that. The more firepower you bring, the faster enemies die, the less likely you're going to get shot, or have added patrols. Killing as quickly and efficiently as possible provides safety. How often does a holotarget scout provide more damage (via +aim/crit/vpt), compared to say another gunner or assault?

Holo+Phantom scouts shine in team comps that emphasize bullets over explosives. It starts off humble but ramps up nicely as the sharpshooter levels up (and gains officer abilities, since a holo scout also makes a good officer candidate). They're at their best when they are assisting characters who take a large number of not-quite-100%-accuracy shots (Rapid Fire rangers, cooldown gunners) against enemies who have lots of HP and/or defense (berserkers, ADVENT generals, gatekeepers, etc.). They also generally help shore up aim deficiencies so that other support characters (e.g. medic specialists, flash/smoke grenadiers, aura psi ops whose fancier powers are on cooldown) can take useful shots more often. And they do all of this while being a useful forward scout who stays just a little ahead of the rest of the squad to get a feel for what's coming.

Comparatively, they don't synergize so well with something like an assault (who is probably close-ranging the enemy for 100% hit and a high crit percentage anyway, and might be R&Ging outside of command range at times), explosives/fire users (who as far as I know gain no benefit from holo, unless they shoot their gun at the person), or teams that want to be super close to the enemy in general (since such teams will get flanks a lot anyway and be relying on dealing overwhelming AoE + single target damage in a way that a holo sharp can't really contribute enough towards).

I also like to equip my holo scouts with a pistol and some AWC training, just in case they ever need to contribute to fights more directly (e.g. Faceoff, Clutch Shot). I find Shadowkeeper to be very nice on them. The one in my current campaign also happened to luck out with Ghostwalker as an AWC perk, which further helps with the scouting aspect.