How many regions? Liberate one at a time, or expand continually?

[jarude]

This may seem really dumb, but I'm not sure what the optimal path of region liberation is.

Are we liberating each one as we go? Or should we be making contact with additional regions?

[Tuhalu]

A common strategy is to expand to 3 regions relatively quickly, while attempting liberation missions as they appear. From there, you can liberate 1 or 2 regions over a couple months, allowing you to increase your contacts and expand towards the Blacksite (which will now be visible). Aside from getting bonus contacts, that's the limit on regions you can contact without the radio room in the avenger.

In general, 3 contacted regions is sufficient to provide more than enough missions in the early game. As you liberate each region you should be opening at least one new region to replace it. While it's possible to win the game with only 1 region liberated, it's more common to aim for 3 regions liberated for the steady supply income and then liberate other regions if it is strategically convenient.

In 1.3, that theory may change as winning the Tower mission in each region gives you a free Radio Tower and purchased Radio Towers will be much more expensive. The result being that it'll be more expensive to expand if you don't try and get some free Radio Towers along the way.

[stefan3iii]

In 1.2 I expand as quickly as I can generate intel, building radio towers as needed.

There isn't much reason to liberate more than one region, 13 rebels on supply in an un-liberated region will provide about 20% less supply than a liberated one. If for some reason you really have nothing to do with your best 8 soldiers, then sure finish the liberation chain in a region as you'll get a lot of resources from the Advent HQ mission.

[Antifringe]

Definitely do not liberate all, or even most, of your contacted regions.

ADVENT controlled regions are very valuable. They generate missions. Low strength regions generate things like Jailbreaks, High Value Prisoners, and the various data raids. Mid strength regions generate Troop Ambushes. High strength regions don't generate many actionable missions, but they serve as a holding pen for ADVENT strength. 15 legions piled up in a region are 15 legions not bugging you elsewhere.

When you liberate, you lose all of those advantages. This isn't to say that liberation is bad or worthless, but rather that there is a balance to be struck. I try to get one liberated region quickly, right at or even before laser weapons, and then back off a bit. I'll pick up more as the game progresses, but I'd stop altogether at 4.

As for contacted regions, I expand as quickly as my comm capacity allows. Even if I can't afford to do much with a new region, I can always just put everyone on recruit. It also means that my rebels start gaining levels sooner.

[LordYanaek]

Also note that in 1.3 liberating a region will remove a point from the doom counter. Liberation also provides you with a large amount of bodies which can come pretty handy to develop new techs. Supply raids / Troop ambushes will be slightly harder to detect and (probably much) harder to run at 0% so you'll have less opportunities to reduce ADVENT Strength (and slow down avatar progress) and recover bodies outside of liberation. They will probably play a bigger role.

Otherwise as others said, you should expand continually as intel and comm allows. The last thing you want is to be stuck with only liberated regions and not enough intel to contact a new one as intel generation out of mission is really slow and you'll likely spend a lot of time doing nothing, not gaining XP, not slowing Avatar and overall, falling behind even if you are generating tons of supplies.

[Antifringe]

Another thing about liberations is that they create a special form of vigilance. When you liberate, vigilance in the liberated region drops to one (the minimum number allowed), but all adjacent regions gain +3 and all other regions gain +1. This will usually be a large net positive change in net vigilance, especially if it's your first liberation, and very more especially if you take into consideration the 4 legion kills that you can potentially get.

Most people know that, but what I've never seen discussed is the fact that that uncontacted regions aren't affected by the weekly vigilance burn off. This is kind of a big deal. Your first liberation, assuming three adjacentcies, will generate 21 gross vigilance. What's more, most of that vigilance will be permanent, or at least permanent until you start contacting more regions. But it's going to be months before you've expanded your network to include even half of those regions, and during that time, the Avatar project will have been horribly slowed down, and slowed down in a way that ADVENT can't do anything about. This is why I recommend ultimately going for 3-4 liberations. I'm convinced that people who are having trouble with the Avatar race haven't tried an early liberation approach. I know that personally, my own troubles with Avatar vanished once I started doing this.

[Kyrsoh]

Antifringe is absolutely right.

Liberation is the most useful tool to slow down the Avatar project. Liberation means an open revolution against the ADVENT administration, so the alien government HAS to deal with it somehow. They are gathering forces at the nearby regions, preparing Dark Events to suppress the rebellion - which means that they have less time and resources to make progress on Avatar.

If you can liberate 3-7 regions, you will have a plenty of time against the aliens - and a lot of unmolested territories to create supplies (or manufacture valuable things if you use the Rebel Jobs mods). You can control the global ADVENT strenght as well - not just with the destroyed legions at the liberated regions but with supply raids and troop column missions in the adjacent territories.

You have to build a huge and deep roster in your barracks to stand a chance in multiple liberation chains at once but it worths it.

[Exquisitor]

Isn't there an intel bonus to discover missions in your starting zone? If so, then one should concentrate there to get that zone liberated asap. Expand from there as resources and intel permit.

[Antifringe]

I think that the detection thresholds are lower during the first month, everywhere. I don't think the first region has any permanent special rules.

[Tuhalu]

Depending on difficulty level, you'll get bonuses to mission detection at low force levels. You'll blow past the bonuses very quickly on veteran (FL3), commander (FL2) and legendary (FL2), but they last all game on Rookie. Force Levels increase every 16 days on every difficulty.

[Antifringe]

Depending on difficulty level, you'll get bonuses to mission detection at low force levels. You'll blow past the bonuses very quickly on veteran (FL3), commander (FL2) and legendary (FL2), but they last all game on Rookie. Force Levels increase every 16 days on every difficulty.

Thanks! I've been trying to find an explicit description of this effect for a while. Do you know the mechanism used here? Is it an decrease to the detection threshold, an increase to the detection chance, or a bonus to mission intel production?

[Tuhalu]

From XComLW_Activities.ini

Code: Select all

[LW_Overhaul.X2LWActivityDetectionCalc]
; This makes detection easier in regions of certain force levels (which are like tech levels), can be used to ramp up difficulty as alien tech level increases
; Index is difficulty, set to false to turn off all modifiers
+USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[0] = true
+USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[1] = true
+USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[2] = false
+USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[3] = false

; These are the values, a flat % added to the daily chance to detect hidden missions; index is force level. 
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[0]=10
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[1]=10
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[2]=5
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[3]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[4]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[5]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[6]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[7]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[8]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[9]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[10]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[11]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[12]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[13]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[14]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[15]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[16]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[17]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[18]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[19]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[20]=2

+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[0]=5
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[1]=5
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[2]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[3]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[4]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[5]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[6]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[7]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[8]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[9]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[10]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[11]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[12]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[13]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[14]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[15]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[16]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[17]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[18]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[19]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[20]=0

+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[0]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[1]=3
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[2]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[3]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[4]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[5]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[6]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[7]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[8]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[9]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[10]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[11]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[12]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[13]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[14]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[15]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[16]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[17]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[18]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[19]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[20]=0

+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[0]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[1]=2
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[2]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[3]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[4]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[5]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[6]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[7]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[8]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[9]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[10]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[11]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[12]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[13]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[14]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[15]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[16]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[17]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[18]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[19]=0
+FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[20]=0

[LW_Overhaul.X2LWActivityCooldown_UFO]
; How many DAYS between UFOs that level-up aliens worldwide.
+FORCE_UFO_COOLDOWN_DAYS[0]=16
+FORCE_UFO_COOLDOWN_DAYS[1]=16
+FORCE_UFO_COOLDOWN_DAYS[2]=16
+FORCE_UFO_COOLDOWN_DAYS[3]=16

Huh. Looks like those numbers are turned off on Commander and Legend. I better check the source code to see if that's true

Edit: Confirmed.

From X2LWActivityDetectionCalc.uc

Code: Select all

function float GetDetectionChance(XComGameState_LWAlienActivity ActivityState, X2LWAlienActivityTemplate ActivityTemplate, XComGameState_LWOutpost OutpostState)
{
	local float ResourcePool;
	local float DetectionChance;
	local DetectionModifierInfo Mod;
	local XComGameState_WorldRegion RegionState;
	local XComGameState_WorldRegion_LWStrategyAI RegionalAI;

	ResourcePool = ActivityState.MissionResourcePool;
	if (ActivityTemplate.RequiredRebelMissionIncome > 0)
		ResourcePool -= ActivityTemplate.RequiredRebelMissionIncome;
	DetectionChance = ResourcePool / 100.0 * ActivityTemplate.DiscoveryPctChancePerDayPerHundredMissionIncome;

	//add fixed modifiers
	foreach DetectionModifiers(Mod)
	{
		DetectionChance += Mod.Value;
	}

	// insert something sort of cheaty
	//`LWTRACE ("Bugcheck:" @ string(`DifficultySetting) @ default.USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[`DIFFICULTYSETTING]);
	if (default.USE_DETECTION_FORCE_LEVEL_MODIFIERS[`DIFFICULTYSETTING])
	{
	    RegionState = GetRegion(ActivityState);
		RegionalAI = class'XComGameState_WorldRegion_LWStrategyAI'.static.GetRegionalAI(RegionState);
		if(RegionState == none)
		{
			`REDSCREEN("Cannot find region for activity " $ ActivityState.GetMyTemplateName());
		}
		switch (`DIFFICULTYSETTING)
		{
			case 0: DetectionChance += default.FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_ROOKIE[clamp(RegionalAI.LocalForceLevel, 1, 20)]; break;
			case 1: DetectionChance += default.FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_VETERAN[clamp(RegionalAI.LocalForceLevel, 1, 20)]; break;
			case 2: DetectionChance += default.FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_COMMANDER[clamp(RegionalAI.LocalForceLevel, 1, 20)]; break;
			case 3: DetectionChance += default.FORCE_LEVEL_DETECTION_MODIFIER_LEGENDARY[clamp(RegionalAI.LocalForceLevel, 1, 20)]; break;
			default: break;
		}
	}

	//normalize for update rate
	DetectionChance *= float(class'X2LWAlienActivityTemplate'.default.HOURS_BETWEEN_ALIEN_ACTIVITY_DETECTION_UPDATES) / 24.0;

	return DetectionChance;
}

[Dwarfling]

Sure, Liberation is a way to increase Vigilance and slow down the Avatar progress. But so is taking down facilities and doing the Golden Path missions.

My biggest deal with Liberating more than 1-2 regions is that on Legendary you're looking at getting over 100 legions around the end of the 1st year. Those regions you liberate are regions that can't fit more ADVENT strenght. So you can end up with a world where every region is 6+ strenght and now you can't pull doable GOps because you can only send small teams against late game enemies with tons of tactical upgrades. And without Intel packages you can't detect facilities, and without Intel income you can't get the Golden path research done. And you risk this game-state for a bigger influx of supplies mid-game and a temporary reduction in Avatar research.

Thus my go-to tactic for the strategic layer in Legendary is liberating one region as fast as possible, expanding fast horizontally far from the liberated region while trying to pick columns and supply raids in the areas close to XCOM country that will be attracting troop movement, and trying to get the skulljacking done as early as possible using the tech spikes of weapons and armor research. If I manage to get another liberation chain I finish it, but I stop at 2.

[trihero]

I think what you say makes a lot of sense dwarfling specifically for legend difficulty. Besides your liberated region, how many rebels do you try to assign to supplies? Or do you just rely on corpses/resources from troop columns/supply raids to give you enough supplies to keep expanding/upgrading?

[Dwarfling]

I think what you say makes a lot of sense dwarfling specifically for legend difficulty. Besides your liberated region, how many rebels do you try to assign to supplies? Or do you just rely on corpses/resources from troop columns/supply raids to give you enough supplies to keep expanding/upgrading?

I'm still in July of my first 1.3 Legendary campaign, so this might not be applicable anymore, but it used to be (and still somewhat seems to be) that the first liberation would attract a seemingly endless movement of troops on the regions adjacent to your liberated region, regardless of how active you were in those regions. If you built up large Havens there previously, you'd have a significant chance to detect Supply Raids and even UFOs with good timers as the regions increased in Strenght, up until the region hit St7 and missions just got too hard. I had to intel boost many of them to fit 5-6 people, but it seemed very worth it. In the mean time you'd have to fend off Data Taps and Full Retals, which is not bad considering experience is also a resource, at the cost of some of your rebels. That would indeed fund my mid-game, be it directly or with corpses.

If those regions still had a good amount of rebels I would switch them all to Supply, fend off the easy Supply retals (and get exp in the process), until full retals brought the haven population down. The regions will never drop in Strenght at any rate, so might as well squeeze as much as you could.

However now that we got SnG and retals are super risky I dunno if it's still a correct path to choose. I'm still figuring this patch out.