Graze mechanic question (for chance to hit <10% or >90%)

[wobuffet]

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere; I did a quick search and didn't find anything.

Intuitively, to keep Graze "balanced" (i.e., approximately as helpful as it is hurtful), I would assume that (with 0 Dodge and Crit for simplicity)

• 7% chance to hit => 14% chance of graze, 86% chance of miss
  (7% of hits downgraded to grazes, and 7% of misses upgraded to grazes – so 14%, not 17%)
• 98% chance to hit => 4% chance of graze, 96% chance of hit
  (2% from hits, 2% from misses – so 4%, not 12%)

i.e., "graze" makes sure to eat equally into your to-hit and to-miss chances.

Is this in fact the case? If not, I would contend that >90% shots are unduly punished and <10% shots are unduly rewarded.

[trihero]

From what I remember about reading the summary they posted about the graze band, the point of it is to make it so that 90%+ hits cannot do zero damage (unless the enemy has dodge), and so that low chance shots have a harder time of being criticals. Having seen players complain about situations like both of those, at least on the surface the graze band does address those concerns.

Yeah I agree when you're at 100% to hit, the graze band is just a punishment, and when you're at 0%, the graze hand is just an upgrade, but I honestly have no idea how much fine control they have over the graze mechanics, there's something funny like only one roll going on behind the scenes and they played with it to mechanically work as it does now, I don't know if they can do something more fine like apply a different function for very specific values of hit/crit.

[Mavoc]

• 7% chance to hit => 14% chance of graze, 86% chance of miss
  (7% of hits downgraded to grazes, and 7% of misses upgraded to grazes – so 14%, not 17%)
• 98% chance to hit => 4% chance of graze, 96% chance of miss
  (2% from hits, 2% from misses – so 4%, not 12%)

first of I assume you meant hit and not miss on the second bullet
7% hit chance means 17% graze and 83% miss
98% hit chance means 12% graze and 88% hit

The band is +-10% of the to hit number is considered a graze

[bearmans]

I don't think it works the way you've described. I'm pretty sure I've grazed a 100% to-hit double barrel, but it's possible I'm mis-remembering..

[Jacke]

I'm pretty sure I've grazed a 100% to-hit double barrel, but it's possible I'm mis-remembering..

You can graze a 100% to-hit roll. 10% Graze Band means 10% into the miss range AND 10% into the hit range, so 100% raw to-hit is 90% hit and 10% graze. I think you can still get 110% to-hit which will always give a hit.

Crit chance and dodge chance complicates this. Critting will make a miss a graze, a graze a hit, and a hit a crit. Dodging does the same the other way, a crit into a hit, a hit into a graze, a graze into a miss. Getting both a crit and a dodge just offset each other and leave the to-hit result unchanged.

[wobuffet]

• 7% chance to hit => 14% chance of graze, 86% chance of miss
  (7% of hits downgraded to grazes, and 7% of misses upgraded to grazes – so 14%, not 17%)
• 98% chance to hit => 4% chance of graze, 96% chance of miss
  (2% from hits, 2% from misses – so 4%, not 12%)

first of I assume you meant hit and not miss on the second bullet
7% hit chance means 17% graze and 83% miss
98% hit chance means 12% graze and 88% hit

Fixed, thanks.

Maybe I'm missing the point of the graze system, but I was under the impression that in addition to making damage more granular (making gameplay less binary, in turn), the graze system was also introduced by PI to further reward high-percentage shots relative to low-percentage ones. Not adjusting for <10% and >90% cases seems to directly hinder this latter goal.

[Mavoc]

90% to hit is 80% hit / 20% graze
100% to hit is 90% hit / 10% graze
similar effect on <10%

I am not sure what you think is special or odd about the spectrum ends.

[LordYanaek]

Crit chance and dodge chance complicates this. Critting will make a miss a graze, a graze a hit, and a hit a crit. Dodging does the same the other way, a crit into a hit, a hit into a graze, a graze into a miss. Getting both a crit and a dodge just offset each other and leave the to-hit result unchanged.

Pretty sure you're wrong about crit upgrading a miss into a graze.
The rest is correct but Crit and Dodge counter each other multiplicatively, not additively. For simplicity's sake let's consider 50% crit and 50% dodge you'll still get 25% crit and 25% dodge in the end.

90% to hit is 80% hit / 20% graze
100% to hit is 90% hit / 10% graze
similar effect on <10%

I am not sure what you think is special or odd about the spectrum ends.

Because it actually punishes high percentage shots rather than reward them and rewards very low percentage ones which is the exact opposite of what the OP think was the developers intention.
I'm not the developers so i can't say why they added this but on spectrum ends the graze band effect is asymmetric which on itself is already odd.