Class Selection on Level-ip

[dethraker]

Just getting started with Long War 2 and came across something that I was saddened to see hadn't been addressed from vanilla. The Class selection system on Level-up is still completely random, this was a poor design choice in EU/EW and they carried it over into 2 sadly but I was hoping that Long War would have learned from the popularity of Commander's Choice that a different system was needed. I understand that with the ability to assign classes with one facility Commander's Choice is no longer needed, but it makes that particular facility too high a priority because of the complete randomness of assigned classes without it.

A system that is less random and more skill/stat based would be much better for the early Class assignment than getting a low HP Assault or low Aim Sniper early on. Not sure if Pavonis will be making any modifications to this system, but it would greatly improve the ability to make early choices rather than rushing the one facility so you stop getting terrible rolls on soldier Class.

[mattprice516]

If you want to use Commanders Choice, I believe the standalone mod is supposed to be updated soon.

That said, there is a reason it isn't included in LW2. With the caveat that I'm not JL and don't speak for him, I'll try to explain why I personally think it's a good design choice.

The perk trees are designed to allow viable builds for most types of stats - low aim sharpshooter? Make him a holo scout. Low mobility assault? Specialize in long range with arc thrower. Etc. The GTS does allow you to pick for many soldiers, but it's slow enough that you probably can't do all of them.

Being limited to the GTS to choose soldier classes in LW2 isn't an oversight - it's another puzzle to deal with. This limitation has presented me with more interesting problems to solve and more unique soldiers. I still remember fondly my high aim grenadier who I turned into a hybrid shooter/support grenadier.

There's also the issue of balancing against reward soldiers, who you can get from missions or buy from the Black Market. Those come as a set class and you'll probably need to buy a lot of them to keep up with losses. Commander's Choice makes these soldiers much more of a crapshoot.

Anyway - if you want to use CC I'm sure it'll be updated soon. But as someone with about 300 hours in LW2, I really think it's a more fun, dynamic, and interesting game without it. Just my $0.02.

[dethraker]

I'm not asking for Commander's Choice as I don't like the setting personally, if you would have read I wasn't asking for that just stating that there was a reason it was popular in EU's version of Long War. No, I'm saying I was sad to see that Long War stuck with the roll of the dice soldier class upon level-up, it's very unintelligent when it comes to game balance and it also doesn't make any sense if you're looking at it from a lore perspective. A commander wouldn't allow a blind person to remain a sniper nor would they give a big gun to a scrawny soldier.

What I was suggesting was to tweak the class assignment to be based off the stats a soldier has. If greater than 4 HP then you get Assault, Gunner, Grenadier(example only). If the mobility is higher then you go with Shinobi or Assault on the roll, etc. Yes this will lead to certain classes appearing less often, but you can send soldiers to the GTS in order to fill in the classes that you are lacking. This is just one thing that could be done that makes more sense than the vanilla method of:

"Next soldier! Ok, reach your hand into the hat and choose your specialization."

"Umm, sir I am a great shot I think I woul--"

"Reach your hand in the hat!"

"Guess I'm a Shinobi...but I've never handled a swor--"

"NEXT!"

[Arcalane]

What I was suggesting was to tweak the class assignment to be based off the stats a soldier has. If greater than 4 HP then you get Assault, Gunner, Grenadier(example only). If the mobility is higher then you go with Shinobi or Assault on the roll, etc.

Problem is the ranges are so tight and the options are so wide, I don't think this would solve the problem either.

It would probably be better to allow retraining across classes as well as just specialties, but at the cost of a soldier losing X% of their currently earned XP or possibly even being bumped all the way back down to Squaddie (same as what happens if you use console commands to change a soldier's class).

[Amineri]

I'll also add that another option is to disable the "Not Created Equal" bit that is randomizing the initial soldier stats. Then it doesn't matter which soldiers get assigned which class.

We didn't include more choice about class selection because that's already included in the GTS, and we think the classes have enough variety of builds to accommodate pretty much any stat roll.

For example, I had a low-aim but high mobility soldier end up as a sharpshooter, which initially disappointed me (because of the aim). I initially was considering going with a holotargeting build, but I ended up taking snapshot, and adding a scope, so that his high mobility lets him get flanks more easily. So instead of needing high initial aim to shoot through cover, he uses his high mobility to flank (preferably with height advantage) instead. It actually worked better than I thought it would.

[dethraker]

For example, I had a low-aim but high mobility soldier end up as a sharpshooter, which initially disappointed me (because of the aim). I initially was considering going with a holotargeting build, but I ended up taking snapshot, and adding a scope, so that his high mobility lets him get flanks more easily. So instead of needing high initial aim to shoot through cover, he uses his high mobility to flank (preferably with height advantage) instead. It actually worked better than I thought it would.

Well that situation would work right there, but a low aim, low mobility, high HP and Def leads to a pretty much useless sniper. On the same note a low mobility, low HP, high Aim and Def Shinobi is basically useless. Sure you avoid getting shot more often but you lock them to the sword as a secondary so they are best getting in close, maybe you can do something else with them but it won't be as effective.

Anyway the problem with the stat based class assignment is the fact that different people use some of the classes in different roles than others so I can see how it would be limiting to that degree. In the end I guess doing nothing with it is the best option to please more people I was just hoping to see something different lol.

[Amineri]

Well that situation would work right there, but a low aim, low mobility, high HP and Def leads to a pretty much useless sniper. On the same note a low mobility, low HP, high Aim and Def Shinobi is basically useless. Sure you avoid getting shot more often but you lock them to the sword as a secondary so they are best getting in close, maybe you can do something else with them but it won't be as effective.

Actually, I think this works for the sort of ideal "holotargeter officer" build that a lot of our testers seem to like. Holotargeting doesn't require any to-hit roll at all, so the low aim isn't really a factor. High HP and defense helps keep the officer survivable.

That said, I get that some players like to have more control. But from our internal (and admittedly small) pool of testers, the general feedback was "It made me consider builds that I wouldn't have otherwise considered, that turned out to be good and fun."

[JLtheking]

I get the LW team's way of thinking. Having a supposedly terrible soldier actually forces you to think out of your usual class build, and actually gives you the opportunity to develop some really unique soldiers.

That said, Commander's Choice just got updated to support LW2. Use it! http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =688405905