[0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

rookie.one
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by rookie.one »

Bombardement is either completely bugged or hit-or-miss (which sucks bigtime from a players perspective as you want some reliability what you can or cannot do).

The last base that I bombarded was in 0.3.52: 12 battleships with 2 green nose phasers each, 8 cruisers with 2 green nose phasers each, and 18 corvettes with nose coil mk3 and nuclear torpedos vs an equipped alien mining base (76k defense rating).
Did 10 tries, in which the fleet was reliably wiped as soon as it got into firing range (sometimes 4-6 ships survived being mostly red). Aborted that bombing run and started it anew: 5 tries, base wiped out each time without as much as taking a single hit. and the strangest thing about that, the corvettes never fired (full ammo count for both nuclear torpedos and coil guns). So either savescum or forget bombarding.

was way too pissed about those results that I never considered creating a bug report.

By now 0.3.53 did hit:
0.3.53
* Fleets can again assault bases from orbit when the bases have active defense modules. Those modules now contribute to the difficulty of the assault
worked totally fine, reliably and as expected; 2 elite marine modules per cruiser = 10 stength; base defense 100 strength -> 18 cruisers for good measures, base gone

Now it is 0.3.54, and they totally overdid it with that patch:
0.3.54
- ship marine modules worth more in assaults
guess they must have at least doubled the combat strength of marine modules; the ship designer still shows the old combat strength values, so I can't give you an exact info besides that 16 elite marine modules are 100% success for a mining base with 100 combat strength (20 would have been 50:50 in 0.3.53); 36 elite marine modules are more than enough to kill 3 alien home system bases in one go without repairing in between, and 24 elite marine modules are plenty for alien base alpha.

So yeah, forget bombardment, build some marine carriers of your choice and the alien bases are history.
Ian_W
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:10 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by Ian_W »

quisatzleto wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:45 pm Any new idea? Or Just buld 100k fleet power to kill 1 base. Is in unplaybe now TI
May I suggest looking at the enemy base, going 'My. That's a lot of laser firepower. I'd need some pretty thick armor to deal with that. Thats also a lot of point defense. Missiles and coils look pretty pointless', and then building a bombardment ship with about 500 front armor and green lasers.

Note this ship could be built from a small shipyard that you take to the site in Kit form, or it could be following along your main fleet that is optimised to kill the defending base and any defending fleet with it.

Look at the job you need to do, and then build a ship for that job.
rookie.one
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by rookie.one »

Ian_W wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:39 am May I suggest looking at the enemy base, going 'My. That's a lot of laser firepower. I'd need some pretty thick armor to deal with that. Thats also a lot of point defense. Missiles and coils look pretty pointless', and then building a bombardment ship with about 500 front armor and green lasers.
Armor seems to pointless for base bombardement. You are pretty close to the base (~500 km if in interface orbit, ~150km if in parking orbit), and those surface laser seem to have huge diameters, take that together and surface defense will ignore most of the armor. back before patch 0.3.51 I never tested going for armor ratings above 200. Maybe that could work.

For missiles, they are indeed pointless, as they can't bombard; for nuclear torpedos if one gets fired, they base will be destroyed; and for coils, they have a higher bombardement value than lasers. And bases don't have point defense.
quisatzleto
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:13 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by quisatzleto »

I play Brutal Ironman .49
https://www.twitch.tv/quisatzleto


@Ian_W: Has your bold theory worked in practice?

What's the point of 500 points of armor on the front when bombing where you have no idea where the algoritm will choose the hit points.

I made a test, sent 4 ships to the base filled with nuclear warheads - all destroyed without a hit - so I guess it's a turn-based system where the defender has the element of surprise.

I will now test the consul and his mission.

Worst case scenario I will build this 100k fleet my economy can handle it but it will extend the game significantly.
rookie.one
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by rookie.one »

quisatzleto wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:42 pm I play Brutal Ironman .49
Only way to get rid of bases in .49 is sending in your councilor with some marines (base defense 100; target for 100% success 160; so you'll need ~28 Elite Marine modules + 20 command councilor, better overdo it a bit on marines).

And don't worry too much about alien bases; just get rid of the ones you want to settle yourself at.
quisatzleto wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:42 pm What's the point of 500 points of armor on the front when bombing where you have no idea where the algoritm will choose the hit points.
Theoretically you should only get hit in front when bombarding.

Just went through the game data, alien Ground Defense deals 38.2 with a 10m/20m/40m (t1/t2/t3) diameter. So at 500km distance (interface orbit) 60-80 armor should be enough vs PDAs and LDAs; at 120km (parking orbit) we are propably talking about armor values of 1000+.

That is if the game uses a damage based model for bombardment and not some other rules (both ship weapons and base defenses have bombardement values).
quisatzleto
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:13 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by quisatzleto »

My main strategy is to ignore bases and destroy stations. The AI ​​economy doesn't matter if they don't have shipyards to build ships.
frostyplanet
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:26 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by frostyplanet »

Alien tend to over build base defence, I have no idea how to how to take AI Castillo groud base after destorying the space station. Base Assault show 0% chance with 8 elite marine module. Don't know how to calculate the chance. Should I transfer my councilor from earth to Jupiter to take it?
PAwleus
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by PAwleus »

You need about 30 elite marine modules (and enough MC) to show more than 0% without a councilor - versions 0.3.5x-76. You could already have seen in this very thread that 8 is not nearly enough.
rookie.one
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by rookie.one »

frostyplanet wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:43 am Don't know how to calculate the chance.
In the base pop up picture you'll see a number behind a "star" symbol (at least on newer builds). Should look something like 161/173. That is the assault (defense) value of that station, meaning a base defense through population of 161 plus defense from modules totaling for a total defense value of 173.

From here on out it comes down to the standard RNG mechanic (the one councilors use for missions). If you match that number, you have a 50:50 success chance. try to overmatch that by something like 20 for a 100% chance.

As rule of thumb, calculate alien bases with 180 defense rating, adding 20 results in a required attack rating of 200. Elite Marine modules have an attack rating of 6, so you'll need 200/6 ~ 33 Elite Marine modules.
frostyplanet
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:26 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by frostyplanet »

20 marian + 1 consoulor that's very expensive ...
frostyplanet
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:26 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by frostyplanet »

quisatzleto wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:40 pm My main strategy is to ignore bases and destroy stations. The AI ​​economy doesn't matter if they don't have shipyards to build ships.
::Thumb::
neilwilkes
Posts: 184
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Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by neilwilkes »

PAwleus wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:16 pm You need about 30 elite marine modules (and enough MC) to show more than 0% without a councilor - versions 0.3.5x-76. You could already have seen in this very thread that 8 is not nearly enough.
Is there a spreadsheet somewhere that details just what level of forces would be required to successfully assault a station or a Hab in any given circumstances at all, please?
Talk about useful info (not that I have got this far as yet)
PAwleus
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm

Re: [0.3.45] Base Assault - From one extreme to another .... ?

Post by PAwleus »

I haven't seen such a spreadsheet but it's very simple to count and @rookie.one explained above how to do it. However, perhaps a tip in-game with this info would be helpful :) (among tips shown during loading the game)
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